Adjusting set triggers

[deermanok]

I searched some old posts here but didn't find the exact answer I'm looking for.
I recently acquired an older CVA rifle with double set triggers. When I set the rear trigger, the front trigger is very light, too light actually.
I'd like to get to a 3 or 4 pound pull.
Any input appreciated.

 

[bubba.50]

I assume you've backed out the adjustment screw between the triggers a turn or two? If you have and it's still too light you might need a stiffer spring for the front trigger.

 

[bubba.50]

You might also want to check your sear-arm/full-**** notch engagement and sear spring.

By the way, a light trigger pull is why most people use set triggers. 3 to 4 pounds is what a single-trigger pull should be.

 

[deermanok]

I assume you've backed out the adjustment screw between the triggers a turn or two? If you have and it's still too light you might need a stiffer spring for the front trigger.

I haven't done anything yet.
That screw appears to be out pretty far already.
I would have imagined that you would need to turn it in more?
Or is that incorrect?

 

[EC121]

Backing out the adjustment screw usually just increases the creep. It doesn't do much for the front trigger pull weight. The two trigger engagement surfaces are about parallel. They just have to slide farther when the screw is backed out.. A stronger front trigger spring will help. Also stronger back trigger spring. I doubt you will get 3-4lbs. with any of the suggestions.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

Try just using the front trigger without setting it, you might like it!

Set triggers, whilst ‘light’, actually increase the locktime, due to the mechanical involvement. Frank de Hass has written about this extensively.

 

[deermanok]

Try just using the front trigger without setting it, you might like it!

Set triggers, whilst ‘light’, actually increase the locktime, due to the mechanical involvement. Frank de Hass has written about this extensively.

I may just do that. The way it is now is ok for target shooting but for hunting, I wouldn't want to touch off the shot by accident.
I'll have to spend some time getting the feel of how the trigger breaks without setting it.

 

[EC121]

Some of the CVA locks had a sear engagement screw on the tumbler. If so, you might be able to use it to adjust the front single trigger pull.

 

[deermanok]

Some of the CVA locks had a sear engagement screw on the tumbler. If so, you might be able to use it to adjust the front single trigger pull.

This lock does have. Would you say to tighten it?

 

[EC121]

If you screw it in, there is less notch for the sear to engage. Backing it out lets the sear nose go deeper in the notch. You just have to experiment using the front trigger.
Think a little bit. Locks only have about 6 moving parts. It isn't that hard.

 

[Icemanxxxv]

My CVA Hawken has a spooky light trigger too. While it is drop safe it is way to light. So light that just putting the trigger pull scale on the trigger sets it off. That being said she aint for hunting until I too work through this issue.

 

[bubba.50]

Y'all DO know you can use the front trigger without setting the rear trigger for hunting, right?

 

[necchi]

You've got some good advice here already,
But the first thing you need to do is be sure both the lock and trigger mechanism are cleaned of any fouling and old gummy lube and have fresh oil lightly applied.
Take the lock and triggers out of the stock and clean'm up good, fresh oil.
Having them out let's you see how they work.
The screw between the triggers adjusts only the break point of the spring loaded rear trigger cam. (You can also adjust the rear cam "travel" with the small screw behind the rear trigger.) And you can adjust the leaf spring tension with the leaf spring mounting screw itself.
The screw in the tumbler adjusts how far the sear engages the tumbler.
Those three adjustments all affect perceived "pull weight".
Remember,
The screw between the triggers adjusts the break point when the triggers are "set".
The screw in the tumbler affects the direct pull weight of the front trigger alone.

p.s. that screw in the tumbler tends to move almost by itself,, once you find a spot you like, cleaning the screw and tumbler and adding some blue loc-tight or nail polish helps keep it in place.

 

[JamesA]

I have a similar problem, the front trigger on my Hawken seems to be able to go off in a slight breeze. The idea of just using the front trigger is very appealing. I know why I never thought of it, it's too easy. It comes with trying to overthink everything, thanks for the suggestion(s).

 

[deermanok]

Y'all DO know you can use the front trigger without setting the rear trigger for hunting, right?

Yes sir, absolutely I do know that.
It's a new to me gun, I only shot it for first time this past Saturday.
In fact, I did take one shot without engaging the set trigger.

 

[deermanok]

You've got some good advice here already,
But the first thing you need to do is be sure both the lock and trigger mechanism are cleaned of any fouling and old gummy lube and have fresh oil lightly applied.
Take the lock and triggers out of the stock and clean'm up good, fresh oil.
Having them out let's you see how they work.
The screw between the triggers adjusts only the break point of the spring loaded rear trigger cam. (You can also adjust the rear cam "travel" with the small screw behind the rear trigger.) And you can adjust the leaf spring tension with the leaf spring mounting screw itself.
The screw in the tumbler adjusts how far the sear engages the tumbler.
Those three adjustments all affect perceived "pull weight".
Remember,
The screw between the triggers adjusts the break point when the triggers are "set".
The screw in the tumbler affects the direct pull weight of the front trigger alone.

p.s. that screw in the tumbler tends to move almost by itself,, once you find a spot you like, cleaning the screw and tumbler and adding some blue loc-tight or nail polish helps keep it in place.

Yesterday afternoon, I removed the trigger guard so I could get to those screws.
Working off a video, I engaged the set trigger then tightened the middle screw until the set trigger released. Then I backed off the screw about 1 1/2 turns. Doing so didn't seem to change anything.
I also fiddled with the rear screw, turning it in, then back out. No improvement.
I will remove the trigger assembly to inspect and clean it.
I have removed the lock and have cleaned and oiled it.

 

[beardedhorse]

Double phase set triggers can trip the sear set or unset. A single phase double set trigger has to have the set (usually rear) trigger set before the front trigger can trip the sear. On a single phase double trigger you can not trip the sear by simply pulling on it, The rear has to be pulled until it clicks. There is a historic account of two trappers approached by a grizzly bear. In the excitement the trappers picked up the other's rifle which had set trigger mechanisms unfamiliar and different than the one's they were used to. Luckily neither got mauled. One rifle never fired and the other went off prematurely. The shot possibly caused the bear to lose interest in an easy meal. Some single set single phase triggers like those with a roller have to have the trigger pushed forward until it clicks. Then the trigger can be pulled to trip the sear. Some single set triggers are double phase and being mechanically more complex, cost more. A simple trigger can be engineered to shoot smoothly and has less moving parts to foul up. Revising the notches (full and half ****) on the lock so the sear comes to rest at the same point in its arc will lessen the creep on the trigger. Thompson Cetner used to market a target pistol (Patriot) where the front trigger was the set trigger and the rear the hair trigger.

 

[necchi]

Yesterday afternoon, I removed the trigger guard so I could get to those screws.

Good.

I also fiddled with the rear screw, turning it in, then back out. No improvement.

Good.

I will remove the trigger assembly to inspect and clean it. I have removed the lock and have cleaned and oiled it.

Got it.
Get that "will remove the trigger" part done,, Then, Please,, do,, while it's out,, mess with those screws some more. It helps ya "see" what those screws do in adjustment.
When it's out, set the triggers and work it,, like it was installed,, ain't gonna bite ya,,
Look at how that middle screw changes the engagement of the front cam hook,, watch how the rear screw changes the "un-set" height of the rear cam.
When you re-install the trigger, don't be "gorilla handed" with that tang screw.
The Tang screw just holds the trigger plate in place, it's the cut of the wood that the plate fit's in, the "mortise",, that positions the triggers in the stock.
If you "over-tighten" screws, ya squish the wood,,

 

[Mtman725]

Very good information guys, I have two of the older CVA Mountain rifles, I did that so everything the same but caliber, ones a 50 the other will be a 54 when it gets back, from PA and a visit to Mr Holt. Been just using the front trigger as a single pull. Had already pulled both down and gave them a good cleaning, the first one was in bad need of a over haul, which it got then, shot them both, sent the one that didn't group as well off to be re-bored. How the wait.

 

[deermanok]

Good.

Good.

Got it.
Get that "will remove the trigger" part done,, Then, Please,, do,, while it's out,, mess with those screws some more. It helps ya "see" what those screws do in adjustment.
When it's out, set the triggers and work it,, like it was installed,, ain't gonna bite ya,,
Look at how that middle screw changes the engagement of the front cam hook,, watch how the rear screw changes the "un-set" height of the rear cam.
When you re-install the trigger, don't be "gorilla handed" with that tang screw.
The Tang screw just holds the trigger plate in place, it's the cut of the wood that the plate fit's in, the "mortise",, that positions the triggers in the stock.
If you "over-tighten" screws, ya squish the wood,,

I appreciate your taking the time to explain this.
Yesterday afternoon I did remove the trigger assembly. It actually was pretty clean for the most part. Cleaned and oiled it. I studied it and manipulated the triggers to try to understand how it works. Before I could get to far into it, my wife reminded me that we had somewhere to go. I had to put it away for now. Later on today I can mess with it some more.