African game

[vanstg]

Hunting in Africa is not in my near future schedule (unfortunately), however I've been wondering...

I've heard of 4 gauge rifles being used for elephants, with round balls weighing over 1000gr and 300gr of blackpowder. Are those rifled guns? Or smoothbores?

What is the minimum ML gun & load for real big game like elephant, rhino, hippo and cape buffalo?

How about shot placement for those big animals? Heart & lungs like everybody else?

Vanstg

 

[musketman]

Read this older post on this very subject... :winking:

http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=5264&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

 

[Deadeye]

A 4 ga. ball weights 1750 grs. 4 balls to the pound. Even if using a slightly smaller ball with a patch it would still weight much more than 1030gr.
One of my customers went to Africa a few yrs ago, used a fast twist .50 cal with 600 gr. bullets. 13 shots, 13 animals. Don't remember if he got the "big 5" but if not he got most of it, killed everything he was allowed to kill.

 

[vanstg]

"Big 5"???

Elephant, rhino, hippo, cape buffalo, and ??????

 

Lion. I think hippo is not considered one of the Big Five, the leopard is more likely, but I ain't never been there so I don't know.
I did speak to an outfitter via e-mal a couple years ago about a Cape Buff with a muzzle gun. He was completely satisfied that a bullet shooting muzzle gun would take the buff IF the shot were well placed, the bore was .451 or larger and the bullet was 500 grains or more.
Now keep in mind that any of the Big Five will eat, stomp, gore, and generally ruin your whole day if your shot is poorly placed with ANY weapon.
It looked like I might never get to Africa, but now there is a possiblity in the distant future if things keep going on track for me as they have been the past 6 months.
If so I have interest in Elephant, Lion, Rhino, Hippo, but the Buff, now that's a differnt story.
I think 2 tons of ****** off bovine would be a dandy trophy and I deffinately would take a front stuffer.
Keep in mind your P.H will be right there with a very large cartridge gun just in case. Loosing clients to big game is very poor for the industry don'cha'know?
The fella I e-converesed with said my .451 barrel with 500 to 600 grain bullet and at least 80 grains of gee-whiz would likely give complete penetration of a Buff on a side shot.
I would also love to take plains games. They are big, plentyful and much easier on the wallet.
Yes I have researched the subject extensively.
Keep in mind that unless your are well off the Elephant and rest of the Big Five will set you back a couple car payments.
An Elephant permit alone will go for 25 grand and up.
Cape Buff can be had for about 2500 bucks and throw in about 6 grand more for 5 species of plains game and you've got the hunt of a life time.
Set back about 10 grand and you have air fair and all.

 

Most of the 4 bores were smooth bored fouling guns, even into the ctg. era.
; The muzzleloaders were mostley single shots, as was Frederick Selous'. The 3-bore that Turner used for his heart-shot elephant, a Rawbone(make), was a double.
: There wre a few double 4 bores, but they are absolutely massive guns, 20 to 25 or more lbs. in weight. The singles were a manageable(to carry) 14 or so lbs., very large and heavy and as Selous once said that they wrecked him for fine shooting, by destroying his nerves. I can well imagine the flinchitis they'd produce in me. The .450 Alaskan at 65lbs. recoil is bad enough.
Daryl

 

[Stumpkiller]

I believe Maxiball is correct. Seems like I read (Roosevelt, Bell or Chapstik?) that leopard is the smallest of the Big 5 but also the most feared, and most often successful in striking back if only wounded, because it has to be hunted close in cover. The guide(s) back up the hunter with shotguns loaded with #00 buckshot.

I wish I had such things to worry about.

 

Right-on- leopard it is- no roar before they jump you, so no warning like a lion gives. Shotguns with 00 buck are preferred for tracking a wounded leopard, along with a good hippo-leather neck band on you to stop the teeth from penetrating your neck- or maybe that's to deflect buckshot- HA!
Daryl

 

[Deadeye]

Once while chasing elephants on horseback and loading his 3 bore out of a pocket full of black powder, Selous overloaded and upon firing broke his arm. That would make you flinch. :winking:

 

[Plains99]

We are going to South Africa in July to hunt plains game... Kudu down to Impala. Dangerous game is not on the menu because of outrageous trophy fees. I am taking two muzzleloaders... a double .504 which will be loaded with 120 grains of Pyrodex P and either a 600 grain conical or a 530 grain Powerbelt dangerous game bullet. The experimental double will be used for backup and heavy cover (22" barrels, double trigger inline, musket cap ignition). The main rifle will be a new scope mounted 209 model in an action similar to the Revolution, Omega, or Apex. It will be loaded with 120 grains of P and either a 435-grain Buffalo Spitzer sabot or a 460 grain conical. Another hunter is planning on loading the same rifle with 140 grains of P and similar projectiles. The largest game we will probably go after is elk size.

 

I'm jealous - do have fun. You have an in-line double? Who makes that critter?
: African game can be harder to put down than North American game. As old Elmer put it, they don't have a winter season to weaken them yearly. That was the only thing he could think of, but found they were tougher by far & was merely grasping for a logical answer.
: Oh- I've found full sized bullets do work better on thin-skinned game, like the plains game you'll be after. The results will be interesting, a better, smaller bullet CAN make up the difference.
Daryl

 

[Plains99]

Doc White made it for me. It is essentially a Model 97 and a White Lightning put together so the cocking ears stick out on both sides. I also put musket nipples on it. You can see a photo of it on www.whitemuzzleloading.com as he is now making a .54 just like it. It is a nice rifle with barrels regulated at 100 yards using 140 grains of Pyrodex P and a 600 grain Powerpunch but it also shoots 530 grain Powerbelts very well. I intend to use it strictly as a backup for heavy brush and dangerous game conditions. It is a speciality rifle but after a recent Florida water buffalo hunt, something I wanted. I doubt if I use it much but I will carry it a lot over there. For long range plains game I'm taking another single barrel in-line. I agree with you about full-size bullets and will use them if at all possible. I am not a big fan of sabots but pellets work better with sabots and pellets may be the only propellant I can take over there. Powder transfer problems to South Africa have been a nightmare; especially since 9/11. I am trying a strategy but will not talk about it until I get back.