Amount of powder necessary for deer

[Oldnamvet]

The deer that I have taken with my muzzleloader went down quickly to a PRB (.54) over 90 grains of FFG. The ball actually is a through and through shot. So the question is, how much powder do you really need to take a deer at 30 to 50 yards? If I put in 50 grains, and put it into the heart/lungs area, would it be less humane than using nearly twice as much? I am looking toward getting some others into this style of hunting but they are concerned about the recoil.

 

[Kentuckywindage]

With PRB, i've always just added powder until i found my most accurate load. With my traditions kentucky .50 is loves 110g 3f. Over kill yes, but accuracy is something i look for.

 

[roundball]

The deer that I have taken with my muzzleloader went down quickly to a PRB (.54) over 90 grains of FFG. The ball actually is a through and through shot. So the question is, how much powder do you really need to take a deer at 30 to 50 yards? If I put in 50 grains, and put it into the heart/lungs area, would it be less humane than using nearly twice as much? I am looking toward getting some others into this style of hunting but they are concerned about the recoil.

Well, we know deer have been take with .22cal rifles...and two times while sitting squirrel hunting with a throttled back .45cal PRB using a 40grn powder charge, one time I killed a doe that came wandering through at 20 yards with a direct heart shot...a few weeks later the same thing on a 5 pointer, so we know low power loads can certainly kill deer...they just put a very high premium on judging distance, limiting that distance, and precise shot placement, etc.

One approach to handling the recoil is to practice with 40grn powder charges so the recoil is no problem, but for hunting use at least 70grns and they'll never feel the difference for that one shot at a deer...check to ensure the POI is still pretty close...it probably will be.

 

[John Wasmuth]

I use 80 grains of FFg in the .45 and 90 grains in the .50. Works good.

 

[slowpokebr549]

Roundball is right, you never even feel the one you shoot at a deer. Even a monster load is overlooked and forgotten in the excitement of a kill. It is the same thing hunting birds. Ever notice that you can be dead tired and want to go to the house until you see a dog on point. You don't even notice your tired legs while you rush over to flush that bird. Practice light if recoil bothers you and load heavier for the real thing.

 

[BrownBear]

There are certanly no hard and fast answers, so you're just going to have to collect what indicators you can, shake em together in a bag, and divine what you can from the pile you pour out.

Here are a few to think about:

You don't say how far away you whacked your deer, but RBs slow down really quickly. According to the Lyman manual, with your 90 grain load the ball starts at 1480 fps (32" barrel) but has slowed to only 978 fps at 100 yards. I'd say that if the balls with light loads are going the same velocity at 30-50 yards as yours were however far you shot your deer, you already know the answer. Just for the record, out of the same barrel a ball starts at 1224 with 50 grains of FFg and is still going 899 at 100 yards. That's only 79 fps slower than your 90 grain load. And the difference between a 70 grain load and a 50 grain load at 100 is only 51 fps. At closer range the differences would be greater, but I'm betting a 50 grain load is hitting as hard at 50 yards as a 90 grain load does at 75.

If your folks see the game and the aim better at closer range and shoot better with lighter loads, is it fair to assume that they're likely to shoot comparably as well at 50 yards as you do when you're shooting at longer range?

I've whacked a whole lot of deer with bullets of comparable weight out to 50 yards using the 44 Special and 45 LC cartridges in revolvers that left the muzzle at only 750 to 800 fps. Sure they were conical bullets, but they kill deer downright reliably with heart/lung shots. Sure looks to me like those "puny" 50 grain loads will whack at least as hard at 50 yards when starting at over 1200 fps.

That is unless there's something inherently wrong with RBs so that they can't kill as well as conicals of the same weight going lots slower! :wink:

 

[Oldnamvet]

Hmmm. Maybe I could have them practice using mostly rubber balls (they have a .50 cal) and only fire a few using lead PRB to make sure about POI. Recoil from the rubber balls can't be much.

 

[jethro224]

If the gun fits, the recoil with 70 to 80 grains shouldn't bother them. A poor gun/shooter fit can make for a painful experience. A good fit can make all the difference in the world.
I have one Spanish "hawken" .54 that slaps the bottom of my cheekbone so hard I don't even want to shoot it. But I can shoot my GPR all day. One of my buddies shot my GPR once and said "never again". The Cabelas "hawken" .50 he shoots comfortably whacks my cheekbone harder than my Spanish gun.

 

[roundball]

Hmmm. Maybe I could have them practice using mostly rubber balls (they have a .50 cal) and only fire a few using lead PRB to make sure about POI. Recoil from the rubber balls can't be much.

Right, there isn't any....50cal rubber ball only weigh 22grns...it would be a great way to start a new shooter, close target at 20yds, zero recoil

 

[BrownBear]

I hope this is seen as a further development of the discussion rather than a hijack, but I've been meaning to ask you one thing about the rubber balls, RoundBall----

Because of the lack of recoil, do they have a lower POI than a lead ball? That might affect results when training a bunch of folks if you weren't prepped to do a bunch of resighting.

BTW- In our 50 and 54 cal Lymans a charge of 30-35 grains of 3f or Pyro P under a patched lead ball is darned near recoiless, but hits virtually the same spot at 25 yards as full hunting loads.

 

[roundball]

I hope this is seen as a further development of the discussion rather than a hijack, but I've been meaning to ask you one thing about the rubber balls, RoundBall----

Because of the lack of recoil, do they have a lower POI than a lead ball? That might affect results when training a bunch of folks if you weren't prepped to do a bunch of resighting.

Remember that due to their very light weight compared to a heavy lead ball, they are short range practice balls...otherwise as they start to slow down out at distance accuracy starts to fall off, and particularly in a strong wind...so in windy or longer distances you have to jack up the powder charge to keep them under a head of steam...but they're ideal for a 20yd plinking session, practing shooting form, no recoil, etc. (and they're dead rubber, no bounce balls)

I used a .50cal Flintlock that I only use at the range with target loads, which was already set up for 25-50yds using .50grns Goex 3F, .018" pillow ticking, .490 Hornady balls.

I tacked up a paper plate at 20yds with a little aim point sticker on it, substituted the 22grn rubber ball for the lead ball, and sitting in a chair they were hitting all around the center 4"-5" of the paper plate. Switched to a .022" pillow ticking patch and tightened them up a 3" group.

I chronographed the 22grn rubber balls as follows:
50grns Goex 3F = 1450 fps average
100grns Goex 3F = 1885 fps average

Hope this helps...

 

[BrownBear]

Yep it does, and thanks!

 

[Jblk]

I have taken numerous whitetail deer with sixty grains BP with a patched round ball of fifty caliber.Most of those deer have been taken in brushy areas within seventy yards.I like to shoot them over the shoulder and break the backbone and many have dropped in their tracks.The placement of your ball means more than your powder charge.Practice until you know where that ball is going and it will payback in venison.

 

[tg]

"
If the gun fits, the recoil with 70 to 80 grains shouldn't bother them. "

I would agree with that, I have had several .50 cal. rifles of different styles and even the curved buttstock style is not hard to handle with 70 gr of 3f and will take a deer down with PRB out to practical open sight range.

 

[Stumpkiller]

The deer that I have taken with my muzzleloader went down quickly to a PRB (.54) over 90 grains of FFG. The ball actually is a through and through shot. So the question is, how much powder do you really need to take a deer at 30 to 50 yards? If I put in 50 grains, and put it into the heart/lungs area, would it be less humane than using nearly twice as much? I am looking toward getting some others into this style of hunting but they are concerned about the recoil.

Although energy never makes up for poor shot placement I would discourage minimal loads as there may always be the unseen branch, fouled powder or other event that causes a marginal hit. Of course none of us would m..m..miss or pull a shot poorly, but the environmental gremlins are always looking for ways to interfere.

I feel better with a little extra "oomph" to cause as much damage as possible in case a bone or branch robs the shot of some energy.

 

[Idaho Ron]

The amount of powder for me would depend on what the rifle likes. Also the size of the bullet also falls in there, as well as the size of the deer, and potential distance to the animal.
I have seen mature whitetail does that are very small, almost tiny compared to a Mule deer buck.
I tend to shoot the most accurate load even if it is what some would call overkill. It is best to have more than enough whomp than not enough. Ron

 

[Zoar]

OldnamVet and others --- Very good and important thread. After doing some amount of testing and it seems to me that for deer using my 54 cal---a round ball over 60 grains of FFFg is adequate for most deer hunting situations. Now, I hunt with 90 grains of FFFG. That is because my Lyman throws those RB's to perfection at that load and because there is virtually no recoil at that load with my Lyman rifle. It continues to astonish me.

While data on 100 yards, while potentially useful for some people or for cocktail conversation, the fact is most people couldn't hit much at 100 yards with iron sights, thus 100 yard penetration figures wouldn't actually be applicable for most deer hunters. 65 yards would be about max and 25-40 yards would be where most penetration tests are of value and at those practical ranges a round ball over 60 grains would yield adequate deer killing capabilities.

60 Grains under a 54 cal (Lyman Rifle) is a pure joy to shoot.

 

[Halftail]

I killed one Spike Buck around 100 lbs with a 50Grain load in a 50 cal.Dropped in its tracks @ 40 or 50 yards.I like to use 90 usually for hunting but made a mistake and loaded from a pre-measured charge that was loaded for target.

 

[rabjr]

Crazy Canadian! :rotf:

 

[Tinker2]

Oldnamvet

I have hunted deer with a .62 cal smooth bore.
I used 55gr & prb. It worked very well.
I hunt in the Great Plains, the Prairie.



Tinker2