An old horn

[pondoro]

I got an old horn (not a powder horn, just a horn) at an antique shop, a lot cheaper than I could buy a horn for at Friendship. It is white/gray and very smooth. I'd like to make a powder horn out of it. I have heard you can boil or heat them in oil to make them soft and let the open end mold around a plug. Is this risky with on old horn (do they become brittle?) If it is OK then how long do I boil or fry it to make it soft?

Thanks

 

[blacksmithman64]

boil in water for about 15 minutes, longer if its a thick horn. If you go the hot oil route just dip it in for a few seconds. Jam your form into it and let it cool for about a day.Do it outside or your better half will knock you unconscious! :haha:

 

[AeroncaTAL]

A hot air gun also works well. I move the hot air gun around the horn, no keeping it on one spot for too long. This will keep from scorching the horn. Once you tap the sizer in the horn, you can run it under a faucet or dip it in water to immediately cool it and set the memory of the horn fibers. I generally leave the sizer in place while I work the horn as it gives me something to hold on to.

Scott

 

[ohio ramrod]

For an older horn I would put it in hot (200-250 F )oil for about 30 minutes.Any vegtable oil will work.

 

[omarick1948]

For an older horn I would put it in hot (200-250 F )oil for about 30 minutes.Any vegtable oil will work.

I hope this is a misprint!.....30 MINUTES! :shocked2:

 

[blacksmithman64]

:hmm: 200-250 degrees of hot oil....water boils at 212...we boil horns that long in water if not more...I never tried it, but it might not be as far fetched as it seems...and a oil heated horn is supposed to keep its shape better, though I've never had a problem with water or a heat gun... :hmm:

 

[pondoro]

Horner75 - if 30 minutes sounds too long for you what do you think might be better? I don't want to break this old horn.

Thanks

 

[blacksmithman64]

pardon me for jumping in, but usually it only takes about 5 to 15 SECONDS in the hot oil and I mean around 350 degrees hot. You should have a candy thermometer if you try it. IMHO I prefer the boiling water first and a heat gun second...got better things to cook in a fry daddy!

 

[yeoldcraftsman]

I know, another one has two cents. Pondoro, how round is this horn or would you say it's closer to being oval? Would you say it's heavy or light? Can you take a pic of the horn from a couple of angles to give us a better idea of what we're dealing with?

Yes, Stumblin Wolf is correct about the time to immerse in hot oil about 350 degress. And, depending on the thickness of the walls of the horn or if it's essentially an oval horn. Normally, after initial rasping and scraping is completed, I drop in the horn for about 5 seconds at a time until I get the desired softness. Less likely I'll fry my horn that way.
Gary

 

[pondoro]

It is oval. I'd like it to be more round as I think it will be easier to make a round plug than an oval plug that perfectly fits. I will take a picture tomorrow when ths sun comes up.

It is .060 to 0.080" thick at the open end.

The oval is 1.5" on the minor diameter and 1.9" on the major diameter.

I would rather leave it oval than break it.

 

[blacksmithman64]

horn is pretty resilient stuff and you shouldn't have a problem rounding it. I got hold of some 1860's documented ox horns 2 years ago and they worked just like new horns.If you want to make an oval or natural plug, square up the base and press it onto a foam picnic plate and use the inside edge of the depression for a pattern, works like a charm. Boar dilly turned me on to that!

 

[yeoldcraftsman]

Great idea Matt. Dang it, now I gotta add them to the supply list next time I get to town.

hmm, come to think of it, the foam plate would really come in handy when figuring how to fit a plug on a horn featuring a lobe. Should work slicker than one of those break dancers on a ice rink.
Ge

 

[paulvallandigham]

The styrofoam backing for every piece of meat you buy plastic wrapped is made of the same stuff. Works just fine. Clean off the blood and tissue to improve the smell, but other than that, you can use them " FREE" for that template.

Making an oval, or out-of-round, plug for a horn is no more difficult than making a round one, unless you have a pattern lathe turning out lots of round ones. Even with round horns, you have to know the inside diameter of the horn, and trim the wood accordingly. Otherwise, the plug won't fit into the horn.

 

[omarick1948]

For an older horn I would put it in hot (200-250 F )oil for about 30 minutes.Any vegtable oil will work.

I hope this is a misprint!.....30 MINUTES! :shocked2:

After re-reading Ohio Ramrod's message again, I still feel that you might possibly at least SCORCH the horn in hot oil for 30 minutes!

Never tried it, but I would rather use my Heat Gun instead. If the horn is worth the effort, it's worth rounding! JMHO

Rick

 

[pondoro]

Here are two pictures. You can see that the open end has been decorated with "scallops", I want to retain those. Also you will see two small holes along the side that I will fill.

The reason that I want to heat the horn is that the open end is too flared, like a trumpet. I want it to be more like a straight cone. The ovalness is less of a problem to me, especially after learning the styrofoam plate trick for making a template.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Try using balsa wood, or very soft pine, in a thin sheet, to make the inner plug. Then you can use it as a template to mark a piece of hardwood, and glue the two together. Then you can put the plug into the horn past those scallops, and pin, and glue, the combined plug in the horn, with the nice hardwood facing out. A little epoxy will close up those small holes in the horn. When the horn is polished, stained, and finished, they will only add "character " to the horn if anyone even notices. Like most of us, when someone does notice, they are likely to want to know how you repaired that hole! :thumbsup:

 

[AeroncaTAL]

Pondoro, if the lobes are flared it might be difficult to straighten. Not saying impossible though. Never tried what you want to do, but if I was I would probably use a sizing cone and round it. With that thickness, you are going to have to heat the horn thoroughly to get it pliable. Put it on the cone to round it and then use something like vinyl tape and wrap around the lobes to force them to the cone and straighten them. Just an idea and not sure if the most practical one. Personally, if it was myself, I would leave the lobes and horn as is and use the methods described above to fit a plug to the butt.

On the spout end, I'd go ahead and fill the holes with epoxy as was suggested. If you wanted a traditional look, you might simulate a repair by wrapping around the filled holes with rawhide, copper or brass sheet. Rawhide might be the easiest to do; you could stitch it with sinew. Good luck and show us how it comes out.

Scott

 

[Draftsman]

I've had luck using a large hose/radiator style clamp that I place around the end of the horn and then snug it up, then I've heated the horn with a heat gun; when it has softened, I tighten the hose clamp with a screw driver and can observe the progress. When I reach the point I am looking for, I let the horn cool before removing the clamp. The clamp might leave a scratch or two, but it seems to work fairly well. Just a suggestion.

Ed S