A while back there was some discussion about the effect on trajectory of shooting a ML upside down or 90 degrees off horizontal or something like that. I couldn't find the discussion thread, but am wondering about that effect since I noticed recently that many times when I aim, my sites are slightly off of horizontal (10 degrees or less) because of the way my gun shoulders comfortably. When I notice, I make the adjustment, but as there are at least three other things to think about (sight picture, breath control and trigger control, as was mentioned) I don't always know if the shot was taken on the horizontal or something off. What effect on trajectory might there be of shooting slightly off horizontal? Maybe nothing since it would be hard to be exactly on anyway.
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Another "how I hold the ML" question
- Thread starter sneakon
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It has zero effect on trajectory. What it does goof up is windage. As you tip the sights, you are shifting the alignment of the bore to where the sights are pointed.
So, you could be off target by the difference between the vertical over the bore and where the sights ended up when you shot. In practical terms, it might move your impact a full minute or angle or more. For hunting that's not a disaster, but for target work that's the difference between 50-5X and 40-0X. The farther over the bore your sights are, the worse the effect is.
I have an SMLE #4 which has a scope mounted 1/2" off to the left of vertical. So, I compensate by allowing my groups to be slightly right of center at all ranges. 1/2" at 100 yards won't mean diddly on a deer sized target.
In your example of torquing the gun 10
So, you could be off target by the difference between the vertical over the bore and where the sights ended up when you shot. In practical terms, it might move your impact a full minute or angle or more. For hunting that's not a disaster, but for target work that's the difference between 50-5X and 40-0X. The farther over the bore your sights are, the worse the effect is.
I have an SMLE #4 which has a scope mounted 1/2" off to the left of vertical. So, I compensate by allowing my groups to be slightly right of center at all ranges. 1/2" at 100 yards won't mean diddly on a deer sized target.
In your example of torquing the gun 10
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Of course it has an effect. The sights exist so that the trajectory will fall at a certain spot that intersects the plane of sight. It is also why we detirmine holdover at extended ranges. The trajectory depends on gravity, and any deviation off of the vertical will affect the point of impact at long range.
Many of the target sights and sniper sights of the black powder era were equipped with spirit levels to insure that the sights were on the vertical/horozontal plane. Some reproductions of these sights are still available and widely used on long range target rifles.
The effects of tilt at short range will not be very noticeable. Inside 100 yards the trajectory is not great enough to cause a miss on a deer sized target. You would only notice the effect if you changed you shooting position between shots or between groups of shots, on a target.
If you shoulder the gun the same way for every shot you will never notice. If you think about the "tilt factor" while sighting in, then forget about it when hunting you may change the point of impact. This is part of the reason for a change of point of impact between shooting from a bench and shooting off-hand.
:imo:
Many of the target sights and sniper sights of the black powder era were equipped with spirit levels to insure that the sights were on the vertical/horozontal plane. Some reproductions of these sights are still available and widely used on long range target rifles.
The effects of tilt at short range will not be very noticeable. Inside 100 yards the trajectory is not great enough to cause a miss on a deer sized target. You would only notice the effect if you changed you shooting position between shots or between groups of shots, on a target.
If you shoulder the gun the same way for every shot you will never notice. If you think about the "tilt factor" while sighting in, then forget about it when hunting you may change the point of impact. This is part of the reason for a change of point of impact between shooting from a bench and shooting off-hand.
:imo:
I've just got spurred by a Leghorn on another similar thread, so I better be careful here.
Think on this. You clamp your longrifle in a swivel vise and aim at a target spot 100 yards away. On firing, the bullet transcribes a parabola through space and strikes dead center. Then, without changing the main vise settings, you twist the gun 90
Think on this. You clamp your longrifle in a swivel vise and aim at a target spot 100 yards away. On firing, the bullet transcribes a parabola through space and strikes dead center. Then, without changing the main vise settings, you twist the gun 90
:haha:
"Make that 97 ways."
In theory any angular displacement, from vertical, limits one to being "on target" at only one range. The vertical variation is ALWAYS there as well given no two loads are ever perfectly identical but the sights/scope can change and adjust for this variation.! This is why barrel run-out is always placed up/down so the sights/load can compensate.
When aligning scopes for friends I insist they let me align the crosshairs vertically based on the action. They always "fuss" and say they shoulder their guns at an angle, but want their scope "flat"?? I always agree and then set them "right". No complaints when they see that their scope is now able to zero at greater/lesser distances.
One friend later commented that I was so contrary he "let me" set the scope this way, but when I asked if he wanted me to put it back like he had it he mumbled obscenities and ...
:m2c:
When aligning scopes for friends I insist they let me align the crosshairs vertically based on the action. They always "fuss" and say they shoulder their guns at an angle, but want their scope "flat"?? I always agree and then set them "right". No complaints when they see that their scope is now able to zero at greater/lesser distances.
One friend later commented that I was so contrary he "let me" set the scope this way, but when I asked if he wanted me to put it back like he had it he mumbled obscenities and ...
:m2c:
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