Another Lemat question

Well I received my Lemat navy from Dixie yesterday. It is indeed a beautiful pistol. Waiting for wads to arrive before loading it up and going to the range.

Question: Do you carry it with an empty chamber under the hammer? It does not seem to have any other safety feature, and I am uncertain about dropping the hammer between chambers -- it seems to be stable, but is it really safe?

The literature from Pietta says not to cap the shotgun barrel until ready to fire it. Is this really necessary.

Looking forward to hearing from some experienced Lemat hands.

 

[Poor Private]

Double check on the hammer. My son found out that his had to milled out otherwise when you fired on the standard cylinder nipple it would also strike the cap of the shotgun barrel, especially when the cap wasn't seated all the way. We found out a cap on the shotgun barrel then firing a cap on the regular cylinder (we don't dry fire ours).
As regards to leaving a chamber open, he found that once it was milled out properly that the hammer wound fit over the spacer between chambers. It would not move at all unless phyically lifted. The holster he uses is a reproduction of a civil war one therefore it has a button down flap on it, so nothing can pull up the hammer far enough to move the cylinder in battery.

 

[Poor Private]

Also wouldn't leaving a nipple uncapped lead to a chain fire that others propose comes in thru the nipples

 

[mykeal]

...nothing can pull up the hammer far enough to move the cylinder in battery.

...while it's in the holster. However, there's always that few seconds just before it's holstered, as you're sliding it down, and the hammer catches on a loose piece of clothing...but of course, that never happens.

...wouldn't leaving a nipple uncapped lead to a chain fire that others propose comes in thru the nipples

Yep. It's possible. Good point.

SJoe - you might be interested in the book, Percussion Pistols and Revolvers - History, Performance and Practical Use by Mike Cumpston and Johnny Bates, available on Amazon.com. It has an entire chapter devoted to the LeMat, on loading, shooting and maintenance. Beware of a similar book, Percussion Revolvers - A Guide to Their History, Performance and Use, also by Cumpston and Bates. It's an updated version of the first book which the author has disavowed due to numerous proofreading errors.

 

[Poor Private]

SJoe you can all purchase from Dixie Gun Works "The Confederate LeMat" by Doug Adams.
This book contains lots of info on the LeMat, it also contains about 200 color photos and well as a bunch of BW ones, and illustrations. The cost is $29.95. You might even find it on Ebay or Amazon.
MyKeal: In my experience you need to pull the hammer back at least to 1/2 cock to fire the cap. And since the LeMat is a single action revolver, the hammer will be locked into place at 1/2 cock and will not fire. you must pull it past 1/2 cock and when that happens the cylinder will advance to the next chamber. I guess this means the one under the hammer should be loaded but not the next chamber that will come into battery. :hmm: Most of my BP revolvers either have saftey indents or pegs in between each chamber which is provided by the manufacturer intended to rest the hammer on when fully loaded.
If you can find documentation by Colt, Remington or any other manufacturer stating that 1 chamber should remain empty with the hammer resting on it, please post it. I would be interested in seeing it. Yes we all take safety very seriously, thats why I carry mine in flapped and buttoned down holsters instead of open top.

 

[mykeal]

MyKeal: In my experience you need to pull the hammer back at least to 1/2 cock to fire the cap.

Why? What is there about the half cock position that makes that true? Actually, nothing - a cap can be ignited by a hammer falling from less than the half cock position - its simply a matter of mainspring stiffness.

And since the LeMat is a single action revolver, the hammer will be locked into place at 1/2 cock and will not fire.

If that were true why don't we carry with the revolver fully loaded and the hammer left at half cock? Why didn't Colt, Remington and all the other manufacturers specify the half cock position as the safety? Because we know from experience that the half cock position is NOT a safety. The gun CAN be fired from the half cock position - all it takes is a weak sear.

you must pull it past 1/2 cock and when that happens the cylinder will advance to the next chamber.

True enough, IF the only thing moving the cylinder is the hand. However, the cylinder is FREE TO ROTATE as soon as the bolt releases from the cylinder stop notch, which is almost immediately as the hammer starts back, well before the half cock position. The simple action of sliding the gun into the holster can rotate the cylinder in that situation.

I guess this means the one under the hammer should be loaded but not the next chamber that will come into battery.

We're talking about probabilities here, not perfection.

Most of my BP revolvers either have saftey indents or pegs in between each chamber which is provided by the manufacturer intended to rest the hammer on when fully loaded.

Yes, and they are a step in the right direction, but they're not as safe as keeping the hammer down on an empty chamber. Again, it's a matter of probabilities. The cylinder must rotate twice as far to move into battery from the empty chamber position as it does from the between chamber position.

If you can find documentation by Colt, Remington or any other manufacturer stating that 1 chamber should remain empty with the hammer resting on it, please post it. I would be interested in seeing it.

No such documentation exists. Nor is there any documentation from those manufacturers saying you should use the between chamber positions either. Nor is there any documentation saying to use a flapped holster. I'm not sure what that proves.

Yes we all take safety very seriously, thats why I carry mine in flapped and buttoned down holsters instead of open top.

Yes. Excellent practice. I fully agree with that.

Look, all I want you to do is recognize that the flapped, closed holster (and carrying with the hammer on a between chamber pin/notch) does not eliminate the need for vigilance. There is still a condition that needs vigilance. It is POSSIBLE (I didn't say likely) for the hammer to catch on clothing while returning to the holster; it's POSSIBLE that it could be pulled back far enough to drop the bolt, it's POSSIBLE that the cylinder could be rotated into battery by the side of the holster and it's POSSIBLE that the hammer could be dropped from that position (short of half cock) and fire the cap.

When you say, "I'm being safe because I use a flapped, buttoned down holster." well, yes you are - that's absolutely true. But that's not the whole story. You also need to say, "...and I'm very careful about moving the gun into and out of the holster."

 

Thanks to everyone for the input.

I have already ordered "Antique Firearms Assembly/Disassembly: The Comprehensive Guide to Pistols, Rifles & Shotguns" If it is not satisfactory, I will look into the other titles you guys suggest.

On safe carry: The only other percusssion revolver I own is a Ruger Old Army. It has deep notches between chambers and I have no hesitation about carrying it fully loaded. The notch in the Lemat hammer does seem to fit over the cylinder wall between chambers and it would seem to be safe to carry it that way. (I do have the flapped holster.) It is just that I have seen nothing written to that effect. That is one reason I ordered the book, but I figured asking on the forum would be quicker.

Thanks again.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Safe carry, even with the Ruger, is with the hammer down on an unloaded chamber. A flap holster does a fine job of protecting the grips from scratches, too.

There is no rational reason to carry one of these revolvers with all of its chambers loaded these days. You aren't likely to be attacked by hostiles or ambushed by outlaws today. If you are, either carry two revolvers or get a modern handgun. Either alternative is better than accidentally shooting yourself in the leg or elsewhere in your anatomy. Or shooting someone else by mistake in their anatomy... :v

 

Well, I do intend to hunt feral hogs with it. They can be pretty hostile :cursing:
But, if 8 .44's and one buckshot are not enough to stop one, a ninth .44 probably would not make any difference. :grin:

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

I wouldn't have a lot of faith in that smoothbore barrel. It's too short to produce much velocity. By the time you pack the load column in there, there isn't much barrel length left to work up any speed. If you haven't finished that hog off with the first eight ball loads, that shot load is probably just going to make him madder. Are you known to be fast on your feet or a skilled tree climber? :v

 

These days I can climb a lot better than run

Took the Lemat to the range today. Shoots a good bit to the left, so I am in for a session with a brass drift and hammer on the next trip.

Tried the shot barrel with six .32 cal balls. Four of the six would have hit a hog (at ten yards) but I suspect you are right about the penetration, or lack of it. Will have to test that next. Also used about 3/4 ounce #8 shot. At ten yards, the pattern was surprizingly dense, but off to the left like the pistol rounds. If I use the lower barrel for hunting, I probably should restrict it nothing larger than a rabbit, or maybe load it up with one big ball :grin:

 

[Jack Crevalle]

SJoe - you might be interested in the book, Percussion Pistols and Revolvers - History, Performance and Practical Use by Mike Cumpston and Johnny Bates, available on Amazon.com. It has an entire chapter devoted to the LeMat, on loading, shooting and maintenance. Beware of a similar book, Percussion Revolvers - A Guide to Their History, Performance and Use, also by Cumpston and Bates. It's an updated version of the first book which the author has disavowed due to numerous proofreading errors.

Ugh. I just bought a used, unfired LeMat without any manual so I ordered that book from Amazon. I ordered the updated version however.

Are the errors in the LeMat section do you know? Any idea what other things are specifically wrong with it?

 

[mykeal]

I was privileged to be allowed to act as a proofreader for the later book; however, I don't recall specifics on errors that were found. I do remember that the Starr chapter was the worst.

For the most part the errors were spelling and grammar and not the fault of the author, which is probably why he canceled the contract with the publisher. They (the publisher) chose to proceed with selling the books they had already printed in spite of the errors and his cancellation; those are the books that Amazon.com is offering.

The LeMat chapter should be just fine technically.

 

[Jack Crevalle]

I was privileged to be allowed to act as a proofreader for the later book; however, I don't recall specifics on errors that were found. I do remember that the Starr chapter was the worst.

For the most part the errors were spelling and grammar and not the fault of the author, which is probably why he canceled the contract with the publisher. They (the publisher) chose to proceed with selling the books they had already printed in spite of the errors and his cancellation; those are the books that Amazon.com is offering.

The LeMat chapter should be just fine technically.

Thanks. I guess I won't have to return it to buy the older version. :bow: