Anyone here tried making a rifling machine?

[ozark57]

I was thinking of making a rifling attachment for one of my lathes. Has anyone tried this? It seems you could hold the barrel in the chuck and use the saddle to pull he button through with a modified steadyrest to hold the guide.
Seems this could work.

 

[Highlander73]

Foxfire no.5 has a few pictures on old hand rifling machines.

 

[ohio ramrod]

The simplist rifling machine I have seen Was made using a piece of square stock"twisted"and pulled through A plate with a milled slot with a plate over the slot.It was featured in MB a few years back.

 

[GBG]

I think the machine you describe along with plans and it's operation are in "Hand Rifling a Muzzle Loading Rifle Barrel At Home", copyright 1996 (no ISBN) by Mark D. Wagner, 419 E. 5th St. N., Newton, Iowa 50208. He also shows how to build the antique grooved wood cylinder rifler. The designs might be adapted for use on an engine lathe. IIRC got my copy from DGW.

 

[fho]

Harry Pope used a lathe to rifle barrels. Get a copy of Ray Smith's book on Pope's Barrels.

 

[shortstring]

You used the word button. I think that when using a button rifling system that you still have to have a helical guide that pulls the button thru at the rate of twist.

 

[Zonie]

There are a few problems with your idea.

First off, you mentioned "button"
If you were talking about the button modern barrel makers use that requires thousands of pounds of force to shove it thru the barrel. Definitely not a thing that can be done at home.

Rifling that can be cut at home is usually done with a single tooth cutter that is pulled thru the barrel many times, each time being adjusted to cut slightly deeper. Each groove is cut and then the cutter is rotated for the next groove.

To make this work, the cutter must be in a machine that will cause it to be in exactly the same place and to travel at exactly the same twist as it did each time it was in the bore.

That takes some method of revolving the cutter or the barrel repeatedly in exactly the same way.

The oldtimers made a guide out of wood with spiral grooves cut in it.
The cutter bar was attached to this so as it rotated the cutter would rotate with it.

I'm not saying it can't be done on a lathe but there would have to be a lot of other stuff attached to the lathes bed to make this work.

 

[ozark57]

Zonie, I know that button rifling is a metal forming process that actualy displaces metal as in thread forming taps. I thought I might be able to use the saddle to pull through the button head. I did not know that cut rifling was done one groove at a time. It is a broaching process so that makes since. I guess you finish one groove, then use a guide to follow it as you cut the next? Also. I think ML barrels are made of 1020 or 1018 are they not? Centerfire barrels are made of 4140 0r 4150 , but with the thicker walls and lower pressures I don't see this as a being a problem. I have a machine shop, and am really getting interested in making my own barrels.

 

[rootsy]

I would assume you plan to use a threading cycle on the lathe in order to time the head with the saddle? That would be one tiny TPI number... Doubt I've ever seen a std lathe that would thread that large a pitch.

 

[fho]

most muzzle loading barrels, that I know of, are made out of 1137,4150,12L14 or 8620.

 

[ozark57]

No, I was thinking of locking the spindle and using the saddle to pull a twisted square stock through a guide fitted into one of the steady rests. My big lathe is 10' between centers so I have a lot of room to work with. I can power the saddle without the spindale rotating.

 

[ozark57]

I was wondering about 12L14. Do you know who uses it? It is super nice to machine and has the same mechanical properties as 1018. This would make things much easier.

 

[fho]

How are you going to index the cutter or barrel?

 

[paulvallandigham]

Actually, because the cutter's edge wears with use, you cut one groove partially, then move the index to cut the next groove the same depth, and so forth, until you come back to the original groove. If a new cutter is need, its ground and hand filed to shape, and size, and then hardened. That way, subtle changes in the shape of the cutter are made to all the grooves equally, as the depth of the grooves progress.

Years ago, I bought a booklet through Dixie GWs titled, " How to build the Antique Rifling machine" by Joseph A. Seabolt, in 1976. You might still be able to find a copy there, or from some other supplier. It describes a bit more sophisticated design than does the Foxfire Books series, but it works.

You might also visit Dixon's Gunmaker's Fair in late July, in Pennsylvania,
http://www.blackpowdermag.com/featured-articles/dixons.php

or Visit Toad Hall Rifle Shop, in Iowa
http://www.iowatelecom.net/~toadhall/

to see how to build a rifling machine.

 

[fho]

I think that is the steel used in barrels but not sure. You can check with the barrel maker to be sure.

 

[Tinker2]

I was thinking of making a rifling attachment for one of my lathes. Has anyone tried this? It seems you could hold the barrel in the chuck and use the saddle to pull he button through with a modified steadyrest to hold the guide.
Seems this could work.

A taper attachment using a rack and pinion with one end of the rack on the taper attachment to turn the pinion on your modified steady rest.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rack_and_pinion

“I can power the saddle without the spindle rotating?”

You can power the LEAD SCREW with a CNC stepper motor or the like.
Then again you could mount a small CNC rotary table to your modified steady rest too.


:stir: :stir:


Tinker2

 

[shortstring]

As you describe your lathe, yes you could do what you're talking about. My rifling head has a sliding wedge under a HSS cutting tooth. Same thoughts as any cutter, maybe 3 or 4 degrees of clearance & 90 degrees of face angle. Some set it up with positive rake some with negative. For me I have good luck at around 90. Most shy away from carbide as the edge of the cutter has a habit of chipping under these less than rigid conditions. You set up an indexing head & progress from groove to groove taking probably no more than 3 tenths or so at a time. Much more than this & the chip build up becomes an issue. You could index the barrel or the cutter. I personally like to index the barrel, this way I can have the head emerge from the barrel with the cutter facing up for easy cleaning. As you would figure a chip in the barrel is a problem. I brush away the chip & flood it with oil each exit. At this rate of cut it takes me around 250 trips thru a barrel to rifle 12 thou deep or so. Coming up with a way to move the carraige of a lathe these kinds of numbers might be an issue. Need a rapid travis like an old Warner Swazey. Somewhere you should be able to find a print of the Springfield Armory rifling head. It would give you a place to start as far as design. These drop the cutter down for the return trip & pop it back up for the cut stroke. It definatly makes your grind last a lot longer.

 

[fho]

I thought that I was right on the barrel steels but now I am just not sure.Best to check with the barrel maker.

 

[shortstring]

I was wondering about 12L14. Do you know who uses it? It is super nice to machine and has the same mechanical properties as 1018. This would make things much easier.

There's been thousands of ML barrels made out of 12L14. These days because of liability 4140 is being used by some of the barrel makers.

 

[fho]

I think you can buy unrifled barrels from some of the barrel makers. Also check with Tip Curtis.