Asking for a friend... Rusty bore issue?

[Steve 1]

Hello Folks:

A good friend of mine recently purchased a used Thompson New-Englander, it's in 54 cal, twist is 1:48 and it's percussion.
It looks nice, albeit a "shorty" at 26"... the blueing is nice, and the wood is also nice. Likely made in the 1990s?
There are numerous comments about them being great guns, accurate and handy to use.
Being 54 cal makes it good for larger game like elk etc, that why my friend purchased it.

However, my friend reports spotty accuracy, and has issues of a very tight spot in the bore when loading.
I took a look at his rifle, and with the aid of a $25 "el-cheapo borescope", actually used for drains etc... we examined the bore.
It's not good news, we saw what looks like patches of rust at various points in the bore. The worst is about eight inches from the muzzle... the tight spot noted above.

Rather than rush in and use something I shouldn't, I thought I'd ask the group for some suggestions of what is best to use to remove the rust.
I have looked at many similar postings, and have suggested to my friend that we pull the barrel, and remove the breech plug.
The breech plug on these rifles is however apparently very hard to remove, requiring a sort of "nut" / breech plug socket" affair... I can make that if needed.

Neither of us wants to damage the bluing, or scratch the finish... but the bore must be fixed.
So I would appreciate any suggestions, it would appear that this gun was used, and likely not cleaned before being stored and sold to my friend.
I have a home workshop with lots of tooling, and can even make lead laps etc if needed.

Thanks in advance for any "been there, and did this" suggestions.

Best to all for the Holidays!

Steve 1 (in Montana)

 

[Bad Karma]

Before you pull the plug… plug the nipple and fill the bore with evapo rust. You can get it at Lowe’s, ace hardware or Amazon. Leave it for an hour or so, careful not to get any on the exterior (it removes bluing nicely…) a removing the rust try the Lee Shaver method of smoothing the rough patches. It may need nothing more than that. Sone rifles shoot bery well with nasty looking bores.

 

[Bad Karma]

Lee Shaver’s Break-in Procedure

Having used the jacketed bullet/clean-between-shot process in the past and
specifically Badger’s procedure when breaking-in one of my Browning BPCRs, I
was not looking forward to repeating the very lengthy process with my other
Browning’s. Fortunately Lee Shaver came to the rescue with his much simpler and
less time consuming process. With permission from Lee I’ve included the details
of his procedure. It’s from a larger article Lee published in the May 2013 edition
of The Single Shot Exchange Magazine.

Excerpt from “Breaking In a Barrel” by Lee Shaver:
Several years ago, I developed a process for breaking-in barrels for lead bullet use
that eliminated the afternoon of shooting and cleaning with jacketed bullet. It
began because I would occasionally have to get bad leading out of a barrel for a
customer, and when you charge what a gunsmith must charge to stay in business
you don’t want to spend an afternoon scrubbing the lead out of a customer’s gun.
And I’m sure the customer would rather not pay for said services.

What I learned was that when scrubbing lead out of a barrel, I could run a tight oily
patch through a few times and then take the patch off the jag. I would then unroll a
little 0000 steel wool and cut a piece the size of the patch. Place that over the
patch and then run it all through together. (The proper fit is when you have to
bump the rod a few times with the palm of your hand to get it started in the bore.)
When you shove that steel wool over a patch through the bore of a badly leaded
barrel, it may sound like paper tearing as the lead is ripped out of the barrel in a
pass or two. I can clean the lead out of the worst barrel in about ten or fifteen
minutes that way, and an average leaded barrel will be clean in a few strokes.

After using this technique for a while, I began to notice that the rifles that I was de-
leading that way seemed to lead less afterwards, which got me to thinking. We use
fine steel wool on the outside of old guns all the time to do some cleaning or spot
rust removal, and it does not damage the surface of the steel. It just scrubs it.
Which lead me to consider the fact that we are trying to break in a barrel by
smoothing the surface without cutting, and it seems to me that process would go
much quicker if we used something on the inside of the bore that was closer to the
hardness of the barrel instead of lead or copper. So I started trying the steel wool
and oiled patch technique on new barrels before shooting them. I use it about as
tight as I can get in the bore and wear out a steel wool pad or two in about 15
minutes, then I go and shoot the rifle.

How well does it work you might ask? On a few occasions, I have built a new rifle
and taken it to a match without ever having fired the rifle. All have performed
flawlessly in their first match and several times I won the match or set a record
with them. On one occasion, I set a new 300 yard range record with the first 13
shots out of a barrel. This method has become a service we offer to our customers
here in the shop and I have shared the technique many times with others.

So the next time you get ready to shoot that new rifle, just remember it is important
to break in a barrel properly, but if the operation you are doing to the barrel cuts –
it is not breaking it in. It may be making the barrel smoother, but to break the
barrel in you need to polish the bore by burnishing not cutting either by shooting it
or scrubbing it.
Lee Shaver

 

[Bad Karma]

Once you have it shooting, you might look at the trigger next… Idaholewis had a post u on the sister page giving a technique for cleaning up the factory trigger. TC single trigger “Trigger Job”

 

[Steve 1]

Before you pull the plug… plug the nipple and fill the bore with evapo rust. You can get it at Lowe’s, ace hardware or Amazon. Leave it for an hour or so, careful not to get any on the exterior (it removes bluing nicely…) a removing the rust try the Lee Shaver method of smoothing the rough patches. It may need nothing more than that. Sone rifles shoot bery well with nasty looking bores.

Hi Bad Karma, thanks for the very fast reply. I am familiar with Evapo Rust, and its ability to strip bluing, thanks for the suggestion and warning!
The posting about using 0000 steel wool is also very interesting, basically burnishing the bore.

Evapo Rust is interesting, it's not acidic, and works by a process called Chellation, I've used it before on old gun parts, and tools.
It looks like the barrel cleaning will be a process of cleaning, bore examination, maybe the burnishing approach, and lots of test shooting... !

I note the caution about pulling the breech plug, maybe we'll leave that until it is finally necessary.

Appreciate the help!

Steve 1

 

[azmntman]

OK, for a cheaper and VERY effective cure try this. Get a gallon of molasses at the feed store ($5.00ish) and mix up 8-1 water to molassessses. Plug nipple and pour it in. Leave 2-3 days. Dump out and get a brush and brush the devil out of it. It should be good to go. THIS WILL FADE BLUING so no splashing or spilling allowed. MUCH cheaper than other concoctions and I have saved some very much unsavable stuff. The gallon will last ya till it's too old to use.

Your welcome!

 

[Steve 1]

Once you have it shooting, you might look at the trigger next… Idaholewis had a post u on the sister page giving a technique for cleaning up the factory trigger. TC single trigger “Trigger Job”

It's not my rifle, but my friend is a very seasoned shooter, and this is his first charcoal burner... So I suspect it will become a rabbit hole he'll fall into, just like the rest of us!

 

[Steve 1]

OK, for a cheaper and VERY effective cure try this. Get a gallon of molasses at the feed store ($5.00ish) and mix up 8-1 water to molassessses. Plug nipple and pour it in. Leave 2-3 days. Dump out and get a brush and brush the devil out of it. It should be good to go. THIS WILL FADE BLUING so no splashing or spilling allowed. MUCH cheaper than other concoctions and I have saved some very much unsavable stuff. The gallon will last ya till it's too old to use.

Your welcome!

That's an odd but interesting suggestion, thanks. Something to look into....and obviously works.
cheers! S1

 

[azmntman]

It works great. And ya real odd. Gotta wonder who tried it first and WHY

 

[Dave Marsh]

Or send it to Bobby Hoyt and bore it out to 58 caliber with a slower round ball twist.

 

[rchas]

Another alternative to steel wool are scotch-brite pads. You can get grits from 60 to 1000.

 

[waarp8nt]

https://feeds.brownells.com/aspx/learn/learndetail.aspx?lid=12621
Used that method once and couldn't believe the crud that came out of the barrel. Smoothed some rough spots and it shot a group with all touching at 50 yards (from a bench).

You don't have to buy their over priced stainless pads. Most hardware stores like Menards sell the 3M version for just a couple bucks.

 

[Ed C.]

Some good suggestions so far. I'll just add my 2 cents in dealing with a rusty .50 cal. bore on an old traditions deerhunter a friend inherited. I plugged the nipple and filled the bore with PB Blaster. I left it overnight and was able to remove the nipple and bolster screw with difficulty. I wrapped a piece the green scotchbrite pad around an undersized brush and brushed the bore a few hundred times. It took out the rust, some pitting was left and the gun tested out to be a good shooter all things considered. About a 2 1/2" group at 50 yards. I was careful with the Blaster but did not notice any damage to the blueing.

 

[waarp8nt]

Found the target, again the bore was pretty bad. Flushed it clean and scrubbed it again. Shot well enough when done and was simple enough to do.

 

[snakebit]

Straight white vinegar (cheapest stuff in kmart) will cut the rust. Be careful with over splash. Ditto on the scotch Brite pads. blue one have worked good for me. Good luck with her! Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

 

[stikshooter]

I use Lee Shavers bore treatment works on new/used and Lee says his customers pay big bucks and he is giving us the recipe for FREE!!! /Ed

 

[Bad Karma]

It's not my rifle, but my friend is a very seasoned shooter, and this is his first charcoal burner... So I suspect it will become a rabbit hole he'll fall into, just like the rest of us!

Just give him a little nudge…

 

[Steve 1]

It works great. And ya real odd. Gotta wonder who tried it first and WHY

Dare I say.... "Sweet".... sorry.

 

[Bad Karma]

The biggest problem with pulling the breech on the round barrel guns is that the plug is hard to get a grip on. For the Barr barrel, you just need a hole bored through a set of blocks and some rosin. The octagon breech can be grabbed by the suitable wrench. Not so easy with the new englander. Hoyt has rebored three of mine so he definitely has a process.

 

[Steve 1]

The biggest problem with pulling the breech on the round barrel guns is that the plug is hard to get a grip on. For the Barr barrel, you just need a hole bored through a set of blocks and some rosin. The octagon breech can be grabbed by the suitable wrench. Not so easy with the new englander. Hoyt has rebored three of mine so he definitely has a process.

Hi B.K.

I googled the rifle after looking at it at my buddies home.
The breech plug is odd, rounded and asymmetrical… that lead me to more postings with folks offering to buy the old TC supplied tool.
Alas, that’s no longer an option… but, as I have a lathe, and a mill, and many more toys, so I might make one.
I’ve pulled breech plugs before, although I must admit, octagonals make life much easier!

Looking at the bore scope pics, I think pulling the plug, maybe after trying to de-rust it might be the best option.
A full muzzle to breech cleaning would remove any chamber area rust / residue, or barrel rusty areas… and allow a much easier inspection.

I’ll see what my friend wishes to do, and I might take pics or some video of the operation if we go that route.
The bore scope pics showed “scabby” areas of what I’m sure is rust… it’s not leading which is usually threadlike needles on the land / groove edges.

I appreciate the amazing feedback, and the many suggestions, even the odd ones, but they appear to have worked for those individuals.
I like the idea of the molasses cocktail, one could imagine reusing the used liquid, ferment it, and make a smoky moonshine, with subtle notes of charcoal, smoke and crunchy texture!
I need to think of a trade name, Ol’ 54… Any takers?

Just kiddin! Maybe…

Again, thanks to all of you for the ideas, and suggestions based upon similar issues with your guns.
That knowledge pool is a great and very useful asset to those who tinker with smoke and lead.
Your offers of help are much appreciated.

Happy Hols!

Steve1