BALL SIZE AND PATCH SIZE?

[montanadan]

As a general rule is it better to have a smaller ball with a thicker patch? Larger ball with a smaller patch?(target shooting). I have Pedersoli Penn. rifle .45 cal., Pedersoli says use a .451rb and .010 patch. Then I read that some shooters are using .440 to .445rb with a much thicker patch.(.018 to .020). I understand that the patch has to engage the rifling to put spin on the ball.(hunting situations you would want a set up that is easy to reload if a follow up shot was neccessary). I have always tried to use the largest ball with at least a .010 patch. I do not consider myself an old hand at this. I would like to hear your thoughts or ideas. Thanks in advance..Respectfully Montandan

 

personally I think that the guys at Pedersoli must not shoot their own guns very often. .451 is a pistol ball for revolvers, designed to be bigger than the chamber so that a ring is cut from it as you load, fitting it tight to the chamber wall and preventing chain fires.

.440 is pretty standard with a .010 or .015 patch. You can go a bit bigger, like .445, but you'll be hammering it down with a rock or your tommiehawk.

What I would do is start with a .440 and a .010 patch. If it's too loose, go to a thicker patch, like .015 to .018 pillow ticking. I prefer pillow tick because it doesn't come apart and gives me good compression.

:results:

 

[Stumpkiller]

As a very general rule the largest ball you can force down the bore will be the most accurate. And the patch has to be strong enough to hold up to the loading and firing punishment.

It will depend on your particular gun. If you have shallow rifling a thin patch with a larger ball may work best. I prefer a 0.010" under caliber ball with a 0.015" or 0.018" patch. It is MUCH easier to load than a 0.005" under caliber ball and any patch. Certainly easier that a bore-sized ball, which would require a mallet to load. :shocking:

If you've broken a wood ramrod or your hands hurt after a full day of shooting your ball & patch combo is probably too tight.


With my .50 and .54 rifles, I use .490 or .530 balls and carry a few pre-lubed 0.010" patched balls in my ball-blocks. These are for fast reloads with a fouled bore.

 

[Slowpoke]

I agree with what Stumpkiller said. For target work you want to use a bore size ball or larger. For my 40 caliber I use a .405 ball and a .015 patch. True I have to use a little hammer to get it seated, but once done so, it's easy put push down with my short starter, then to the powder with a range rod. You need soft lead or you'll tear the patch.
For hunting, I always use a .005 undersize ball and .015 patch, mainly because I don't want to take a hammer out with me.

SP

 

[Rat]

Sometimes what works best is not always the most logical from a technical standpoint. A .600" ball and a .018" patch works best in my .62, and still requires a short-starter to start it...but is then easy to ram the rest of the way down.

What is "best" depends on if you use the rifle for hunting and enjoy shooting it, or if you absolutely must reduce your groups off the bench to the last possible .00001"! A "bench" rifle you'll probably want to pound the ball down the barrel...a hunting and shooting rifle...NOT!

Having said that, sometimes the looser ball/patch combos shoot as well as the pound-down loads. I certainly would not pound a ball down a barrel even to gain a full inch in group size reduction.

Rat

 

[roundball]

As a general rule is it better to have a smaller ball with a thicker patch? Larger ball with a smaller patch?(target shooting). I have Pedersoli Penn. rifle .45 cal., Pedersoli says use a .451rb and .010 patch. Then I read that some shooters are using .440 to .445rb with a much thicker patch.(.018 to .020). I understand that the patch has to engage the rifling to put spin on the ball.(hunting situations you would want a set up that is easy to reload if a follow up shot was neccessary). I have always tried to use the largest ball with at least a .010 patch. I do not consider myself an old hand at this. I would like to hear your thoughts or ideas. Thanks in advance..Respectfully Montandan

FYI...I have .45cal 1:48" and 1:66" rifles...they shoot Hornady .440's with .015" cotten patches very well...and .018" pillow ticking patches do noticeably better, both in tightening group size, patch survival, etc.

I've hunted muzzleloaders for quite a few years now and have never had a reason to need a quick followup shot...not implying I'm a good shot, simply that one of three things always seems to happen:
1) The deer drops where it stands and no second shot is needed;
2) The deer bolts, then drops in sight of the stand before I could have reloaded anyway;
3) The deer bolts, sprinting out of sight past trees/brush before they drop, so a quick second shot would have been impossible;

IMHO, worrying about needing to use a short starter for a tight fitting projectile while hunting is a non-issue...I'd rather have a tight fitting / strong patch combo and have the best performance possible out of it even if it means a couple seconds with a short starter
:m2c:

 

[montanadan]

STUMBLINBUFLLER-Thanks for responding, beleive it or not I do not have to pound .451rb(010 patch)down my rifle. The only time it is tough to load is when I try to use .012 patch.Respectfully Montanadan

 

[montanadan]

ROUDBALL-Maybe I should be looking at .445rb with a .015 patch? This rifle is not that hard to load if I do not increase patch size,.012 patch and it gets real tight. I use this rifle for 25 to 50yds targets and primitive shooting. I no longer hunt anymore, to many back surgeries,and bad knees. thanks for responding..Respectfully Montanadan.

 

[Kaw Trooper]

As a very general rule the largest ball you can force down the bore will be the most accurate. And the patch has to be strong enough to hold up to the loading and firing punishment.

It will depend on your particular gun. If you have shallow rifling a thin patch with a larger ball may work best. I prefer a 0.010" under caliber ball with a 0.015" or 0.018" patch. It is MUCH easier to load than a 0.005" under caliber ball and any patch. Certainly easier that a bore-sized ball, which would require a mallet to load. :shocking:

If you've broken a wood ramrod or your hands hurt after a full day of shooting your ball & patch combo is probably too tight.


With my .50 and .54 rifles, I use .490 or .530 balls and carry a few pre-lubed 0.010" patched balls in my ball-blocks. These are for fast reloads with a fouled bore.

I picked up some new lubed patches, pillow ticking .015 to use with my .490 balls. They really needed pounding to start. I switched to .010 cotton patch and found that they shot as well with that same ball. I can even start them with my thumb, that will be great for my second shot while hunting.

I'm looking for .012 patches now to try them.

 

[aragorn]

Montanadan, I've posted a number of similar queries over the last weeks regarding my Pedersoli 45 Kentucky, and I have nothing of the wealth of experience of some of the previous responders. Most of my first 300-odd rounds have been 440 ball with 015 patch (the prelubed Ox-yoke patches or 44-54 cal Remington patches I lubed myself with Wonderlube). On my last shoot I tried 445 with 010, which were a little harder to start and seemed to produce a lower group by a couple of inches at 50 ys with 50 gr 3F. As to which is the best in my experience, it's early days yet - really I've been playing around so far and am currently making myself a good bench so I can test everything properly on my backwoods range, preferably when it warms up a bit here! I'll remember your query and keep you posted, maybe in the summer.

 

[montanadan]

STRIDER-thanks for the response,I am going to try .445rb and see what happens with .010 patch. In all honesty the .451rb shoot real well out 100yds,but I am using T-7, and I am trying to go back to all BP.I would be very interested in your load development. Stay warm,stay safe,and good shooting..Respectfully Montanadan.