Balls or Sabots?

[pseibel]

I just bought a Thompson 50 cal. Hawkans rifle two days ago. I know nothing about muzzel loading except what I have learned in the last two days. it came with lead balls,Can sabots be fired from this rifle?
Also can I use pellets insted of powder?
I haven't fired it yet I want to learn all I can before that day. I like to know my weapons well before I shoot them. Also do I need to get a coon skin hat? LOL

 

[Rebel]

Well, we don't talk about them Sabot things around here, and they are a real pain to clean up after anyway. As for pellets, NO, you need to use loose powder. Pellets were designed for the guns that we don't talk about that were designed to shoot them sabots we don't talk about either. :: Get ya some .490 rd balls, some Wal.mart Blue striped pillow ticking, some loose powder, either 2f or 3f will work ok, some #11 caps, I prefer CCI #11 magnums, and go have some fun.

 

[Slamfire]

Youz Thompson probably won't like sabots, they need a very fast twist rate. Most makers try at least 1:32 or faster for rifles they expect sabots to be fired in. There is hope, though bore sized conicals will probably do well in slower twists. As for the pellets why limit yourself to 50 grain increments, using loose powder you can choose the charge that does best in your rifle, using just 5 grain increments. :winking:

 

[Bob J]

I just bought a Thompson 50 cal. Hawkans rifle two days ago. I know nothing about muzzel loading except what I have learned in the last two days. it came with lead balls,Can sabots be fired from this rifle?
Also can I use pellets insted of powder?
I haven't fired it yet I want to learn all I can before that day. I like to know my weapons well before I shoot them. Also do I need to get a coon skin hat? LOL

Good choice of muzzleloader! I would shoot a patched roundball. Mine is also very accurate with Thompson Center Maxi-balls which are great for deer, hogs and larger game. But the roundball will also take game,is more traditional,less expensive, and easier on the shoulder.

As Rebel mentioned, get some.490 roundballs. Pre-lubed .015 thick patches should work fine. I shoot Goex, 2f or 3f. For a target load maybe 50 to 65 grains(you have to shoot it and see what groups best, that's part of the fun :winking. For hunting, 80 - 90 grains.

Thompson Center has a safety manual that may have come with your rifle (or contact T.C. for one).

Remember to clean it well EVERY TIME after shooting. You will find a lot of information here on that subject too.

Have fun, be safe :front:

 

[pseibel]

Thanks guys If I'm going to get into this sport I want to do it right and in the traditional manor. This is the one I bought
http://www.wholesalehunter.net/outdoor_sports/Thompson-Center/Thompson-Center-5024-Rifles.html Found it at a garage sale for 115$ with all the[url] accesories.in[/url] great shape not a speck of rust on it.

 

[quigleysharps]

Welcome to the world of blackpowder friend.

 

[Pittsburghunter]

Another one bites the dust ::

Welcome to a real fun shooting sport. You now will mfg your own shots, build up your own special loads and learn tons about how rifles function.

Just make sure someone hides your wallet when you check out the links section. :crackup:

 

[gordy]

The information by the others here is right on.Also the pellets were designed to be used in the "ugh" in-lines.They don't always do well in sidelocks.Unless You wish to coat the bore with plastic don't use sabots.For large game full size conicals do give more energy at the point of impact,but they also punish the shooter more.Good choice of weapon,You'll get great service from it, and the company that built it. :front:

 

[Zonie]

You got an exceptionally good deal on your gun.

It will burn Pyrodex RS, Pyrodex P, 777 or black powder. The powder must be granulated to have reliable ignition.
If you use pellets, it may or may not fire because they were designed to be ignited from the rear by a cap which is right up against the pellet. Your gun has some distance between the cap on the nipple and the pellet.

There is a lot of good information about loads for your gun but to save you a little time, start with a load of abouat 60-70 grains of powder over a .490 or .495 diameter round ball. That will give a muzzle velocity of about 1400 FPS.

Use .015 to .018 thick Cotton patches. These can be lubed with Bore Butter, Crisco or spit. Just don't use a petrolium based oil or grease.

Your on you way to some real fun. Just keep reading some of the posts and asking questions.

 

[walruskid1]

as i've said before - "friends don't let friends shoot plastic". stay away from the evil sabot! stick with a patched round ball or a real minnie. you t/c will thank you with good results.


:imo: :results:

 

[mmarke]

I shoot .45 cal lead pistol bullets that I cast myself married with Hornady Sabots in my T/C .58 cal muzzleloader. I started off shooting Hornady XTP hollow points but casting has added another element to muzzleloading for me. I haven

 

[Rebel]

"not to mention that there is no patch nor lube required with sabots."
Excuse me, but all a sabot is is a PLASTIC patch.

 

[ryoung14]

Ahhh, sabots....fickle friends at best. They can be made to behave, but they're almost more trouble than they're worth. In my experience, your 1:48 twist will stabilize saboted bullets but only the lighter ones. I've fired 180 and 200 gr. .44 cal. pistol bullets successfully from my 1:48 .50 Greyhawk. The heavier 240 gr. bullets didn't group well at all. I seem to recall the same result in my .50 Hawken. In your gun, roundballs and conicals will cause less frustration and pack as much or more wallop than light pistol bullets.

As stated above, forget about pellets. They're made for inlines and won't ignite reliably in your sidelock. I don't even like them in inlines as they crud up the barrel too fast. Accuracy seems much easier to sustain over a long session using loose powder.

But, whatever you do, majic, try to beg, borrow or steal a copy of "Shooting Thompson/Center Black Powder Muzzleloading Firearms" and read it cover to cover before firing that new gun. You'll learn how to load, shoot and clean your gun. I'm sure that if you contact T/C and tell them your situation they'll send you one free. [email protected] is TC's email address to request a manual or you can call them at 603-332-2333. With this as background, feel free to come back and ask for tips on shooting whatever you projectile you like. There's alot of experience here.

You got a great gun at an excellent price. Treat it right and it'll be with you for the rest of your life.
Bob

 

[pseibel]

Thanks, I have e-mailed t/c and the sent out a owners manual yesterday should be here soon. also I will get a copy of Shooting Thompson/Center Black Powder Muzzleloading Firearms.

 

[brubincam]

why would you want to shoot 45 cal. bullits out of a 58 cal. rifle? :what:

 

[mmarke]

One of the original questions on majicman

 

[musketman]

One of the original questions on majicman

 

[Brawdhead]

General Musketman writes:

I would like to add to this that majicman said: "it came with lead balls,Can sabots be fired from this rifle?"

I would not advise shooting any size roundballs held by sabots in your rifle, the balls could roll forwards before the shot and become a barrel obstruction, causing the barrel to burst...

I don't think he was asking whether he could shoot
sabotted roundballs. He just wanted to know if
he had other projectile options besides the lead
balls it came with.

From the discussion, I gather that he has three
options for his TC Hawken:
1. patched roundball [you've come to the right place]
2. conical Minnie balls [check specs on your barrel twist]
3. sabot conicals [this is perhaps not the best place
to research those]

Dan

 

[pseibel]

Thats correct, even never haveing fired a muzzelloader I wouldn't dream of putting both balls and sabbots in the same barrel at once. I was wondering about other projectile options.

 

[Pittsburghunter]

Admin has stated it is fine to talk about using sabots here as long as they are being shot out of primitive styled weapons. Some people don't get this but that is ok, I know where they are coming from and understand their point of view.

Back to your rifle though, not many sabots are made to shoot well in 48 twist rifles so conicals are your best bet. Don't let lead fowling scare you it cleans up pretty good and easy.

T/C makes some sabots called "Bigbore Sabots" that I think are made for slower twist rifles you better confirm that but the bullets look very close to full bore diameter and the sabot is thin almost see through. I tried some in a fast twist rifle and they almost tore my shoulder off. I will be using the rest of them in a 48 twist sidelock.

Because of the bullet length you will need to shoot a fairly light sabot to get the accuracy you want in your rifle. 240g or under for a .45cal pistol bullet I bet would shoot fine. I would not use 44cal bullets at all.

Hope I helped.