Barrel channel too deep?

[Nightwind]

A customer sent a beautiful curly maple plank to a "world famous precarver" to be shaped into a Late Lancaster. After squaring off the breech end of the channel, I noticed that there is a 1/8 inch gap between the top of the barrel and the top of the stock. It seems that the 13/16 channeling was set to a 15/16 depth! by the time I get the top of the stock shaped down to the tang, it will look like a flat top. I supposed the comb, lock and vent will be out of alignment too?

Help! any suggestions? Please?!!

 

[Birddog6]

World famous stock precarver ?? I know several stock precarvers but didn't know any of them to be world famous. But then I guess maybe that is why I know them, cause they ain't famous ? ha ha ha !

Anyway, in answer to your question it is hard to say....... Maybe he left extra on top of the breech. Put the barrel in, lay the lock in place & see if it is right. If not then you have a barrel channel to shim or Microbed. If it lays right then round of the top with a rasp & go on.

As for the comb & etc. being out of allignment, keep in mind a precarve is not a finished shape, it is roughed to shape for you to finish. The dif in the comb & etc will not be noticable if you have to do any minor adjustments.

My main concern on all of this would be the thickness of the wood between the barrel channel & RR hole & is there enough room for a front bolt in the lock to go thru this space. I would drill a 1/8" test hole about 4" from the breech down thru the barrel channel into the RR hole & see what the thickness is there. If you bed the barrel make sure you plug this hole first is a lil bitty short plug or the bedding will fill the RR hole.. :redface:

 

[David/toledo]

Bring it by maybe we can figure out what to do with it Been haveing a shop night with some friends on Thrusday nights. Pistal is almost done finaly
David

 

[Zonie]

The issue isn't how much wood is left above the barrel so much as it is, where is the barrel with respect to the wrist and lock panals? Also, like Birddog6 mentioned, how much wood is left under the barrel for the ramrod and thimble tangs?
If there is any way you could post a photo of your stock and barrel it would be easier to determine if your stock is fine or if your in a heap of trouble. :hmm:

 

[Nightwind]

Dave, thanks for the invite. Maybe next week. Today is the wife-mate's birthday, and I AIN"T GOING ANYWHERE!!! This evening's her's!!!

I'll check around for instructions on how to post pics. Maybe I'll get lucky and actually comprehend it!

 

If you can't figure it out, send 'em to me and I'll post them for you.

:thumbsup:

 

[Nightwind]

Another try at photos;

Even though I have a 1/4 inch web between the barrel channel and the ramrod groove, tha barrel is still a good 1/16 to 3/32 inch too low for the flint lock. And I'll have to set the barrel channel back another 3/4 inch to keep the vent 1/8 inch forward of the breech plug.

Any more suggestion? (groan)

 

[Johnny Tremain]

I think Id try glass bedding a vennier stip into the barrel channel.

 

First off, before you cut, whack, bed, inlay, I would have a talk with whoever cut the channels. To my thinking, it should be his problem, and not yours as a builder. Another option not mentioned is go to a larger barrel, and widen the channel. I'd send them both the barrel and stock blank so they know how they oopst it up. I don't think you or the customer want what ya got now. Bill

 

[Nightwind]

I appreciate ALL the suggestions given. Unfortunately, I cannot send it back to Pecatonica. The blank it was carved from was a very sentimental piece of wood given to the owner by his grandfather over 40 years ago. He had been hanging on to it all this time for a special project. When his wife shot the rifle that I had made for my wife, she wanted one just like it. So he decided that's what the blank would be used for. So, I've obligated myself to making this work as a ladies sized target rifle as originallly planned. Oh, this is a Late Lancaster style.

At this point, I think I'll have to do some very careful full scale drawings in exact sizes, to see the results of the different options given above. If there are any more suggestions, I'm all ears, I could use all the help I can get on this one.

Thanks for your help and suggestions. I'll keep y'all posted as this goes on.

 

[ol vern]

Ah the joy of a pre carve! The one thing you can't adjust on you stock is the lock inlet so you will have to work around it.


I don't think you have such a big problem. Inlet the lock see where the pan contacts the side of the barrel. I try to get the top of the pan about half way down the side flat of the barrel.

If the pan is to high should not be much of a problem to shim up the back of the barrel so the pan is in the correct location.

You will probly have to move the barrel back in the stock 1/2 inch or so to get the touch hole ahead of the breach plug.

 

[Zonie]

For what its worth:
Looking at the pictures, I can't tell if the barrels elevation is in the right position relative to the lock or not. It may be an illusion that it is low because of the amount of wood at the breech and the height of the wood on the sides of the barrel channel relative to the center of the side barrel flat.
In other words, if you inlet the lock and it is positioned way above the center of the barrel flat, you do have a problem.
If the top of the pan (for a flintlock) is centered to the center of the barrel flat then all your looking at is some excess wood that will have to be removed.

If indeed the barrel is too low for the lock mortice then it will need to be raised.
One method that could be used is to buy some Maple Veneer which is available at most quality wood working stores.
This stuff is about 1/32 thick and 3/4 inch wide and comes in a roll.
I've tried the type which has a heat activated adhesive on it with limited success. If they have it without the adhesive, I would choose it and epoxy it in place.
If you do decide to Epoxy the veneer in place, I would suggest that you wrap the barrel with a layer of Renolds Plastic Wrap to prevent the Epoxy from sticking to the barrel, then place the barrel into the stock and lightly clamp it to hold the veneer in place while the epoxy hardens.

If you split the veneer so it is the same width as the barrel flats, you could put two layers on the bottom stock flat (1/16 height) and 1 piece on the 45 degree flats. That would create a .012 clearance between the 45 degree material and the 45 degree flats on the barrel.
If you don't like the idea of the clearance, you could use two pieces on each of the 45 degree flats but you would then have to remove .018 of material off of them for the wood to contact the barrel without lifting it off of the bottom flat.

Personally, I would opt for the two on the bottom and one on each 45 degree flat. No one will see these 45 degree pieces anyway unless the barrel is removed, and then they won't know how much clearance is in there anyway.
This would give the stock full support on the bottom and two side flats.

As for sitting the barrel back 1/2 inch, if it is a straight barrel that should be no problem. If it is swamped, that could cause difficulties.

To me, it doesn't look like removing material at the top of the tang area would be too big of an issue. Yes, there will be less taper or slant between the top of the barrel and the lock panals, but it looks like 1/16 could come off of them leaving about 1/8 inch of panal width.
If the lower panal width was reduced to match the upper one it would still have more width than #66, 67, #68, #70, #74, #75... in Shumways ROC Lancaster section.

Bottom line? I think you can still come up with a beautiful rifle which looks "very" correct.