Barrel Lead fouling.

[Twice boom]

What are some of the negatives associated with leaded barrels when talking Muzzle loader smooth bores.

I looked down the bore with a bore light of my old shotgun and noticed the bore lined with lead (what I think is lead) but at the same time I do not see that as a bad thing, because the way I see it the lead protects the barrels from rust that may lead to pitting (much like chrome lining) . Now I am aware lead is not a good thing in rifled barrels because it could rob the rifle of accuracy . But as long as the shot gun or smooth barreled gun loads easily, is lead as bad as we make out, and why. I seriously don’t know.
Thanks
Twice.

 

[paulvallandigham]

IF you coated the bore with lead when the bore was entirely clean, the lead MIGHT protect it from rust. However, most barrels are NOT clean, and there is powder residue mixed in, and UNDER that lead.

This is not the same as shooting outside lubed .22 target ammo through a target rifle, where the grease, and lead build up to provide better accuracy from the gun barrel, by filling the grooves, and giving the barrel some "choke". Target shooters worked months to get the best accuracy from those rifles, and only cleaned them once a year- and that is using smokeless powder, and non-corrosive priming compounds!

BP residue under that lead will pit and rust the bore, all the while you think the barrel is "clean" because of the shine from you light down the lead coated bore. You only find out what has happened when you clean the lead out, either with lead solvents, or using one of the new electrolysis barrel cleaning rods. :thumbsup:

 

[Twice boom]

I knew when I was typing my post someone was going to point out that what's under the lead is the real problem and not the lead itself...

I better get bussy. :grin:
Twice.

 

[LSLibelo]

2 questions:

1. What is a good lead solvent to remove heavy leading?

2: What causes leading near the muzzle?

 

[TreeMan]

I’m curious. Is your barrel leaded up from shooting hardened buckshot and/or bare round-balls? I shoot lots of shot in mine and I’ve never seen any leading of the bore.

 

[TreeMan]

Whoops I’m gonna get chastised!!!! I just realized I was the lured into posting on an 11 year old post where some of the posters have passed away.

 

[LSLibelo]

TreeMan,

Sorry if I goofed, but I didn't realize how old the post was when I asked my questions.

The barrel is a TC Hawken smoothbore I got used. I have no idea what was fired in it before I received it. Upon initial cleaning I noticed that the barrel was choked starting about 24" from the muzzle and then again about 4" down. As cleaning I noticed the patches are leaded.

I have tried Dawn dish soap, TC13, Birchwood no.77. I currently using a copper bore brush.

The closest I have gotten to getting a clean patch is after brushing I wet patch getting burnt powder, (black) then red brown, (rust) then a light cardboard color, (beeswax lube) then lead gray. This color pattern has been repeated multiple times over hours of cleaning. After the final dry patch I follow the whole cleaning by oiling the barrel, outside and bore with a light coat of Ballistol and returning to the rack.

I have tried to shot the barrel with hardened lead #5. 62 grains 3f, thick 3/4" TOW op wad, 7/8 ounce shot, 1/4" TOW os wad. TOW was wool scraps from the op wads I make for my cap and ball revolvers. Not a bad pattern at 25 yards.

I have tried .490 RB with CVA .015 pre-lubed patches and LEE 360 grain Improved Minie-ball with my Bore butter/Beeswax lube. It seems to prefer the PRB for loading but the Minie for accuracy. Both are less than 3" at 35 yards but I have only shot this barrel 3 times so far and I have yet to get out all the lead.

Les

 

[TreeMan]

I

TreeMan,

Sorry if I goofed, but I didn't realize how old the post was when I asked my questions.

The barrel is a TC Hawken smoothbore I got used. I have no idea what was fired in it before I received it. Upon initial cleaning I noticed that the barrel was choked starting about 24" from the muzzle and then again about 4" down. As cleaning I noticed the patches are leaded.

I have tried Dawn dish soap, TC13, Birchwood no.77. I currently using a copper bore brush.

The closest I have gotten to getting a clean patch is after brushing I wet patch getting burnt powder, (black) then red brown, (rust) then a light cardboard color, (beeswax lube) then lead gray. This color pattern has been repeated multiple times over hours of cleaning. After the final dry patch I follow the whole cleaning by oiling the barrel, outside and bore with a light coat of Ballistol and returning to the rack.

I have tried to shot the barrel with hardened lead #5. 62 grains 3f, thick 3/4" TOW op wad, 7/8 ounce shot, 1/4" TOW os wad. TOW was wool scraps from the op wads I make for my cap and ball revolvers. Not a bad pattern at 25 yards.

I have tried .490 RB with CVA .015 pre-lubed patches and LEE 360 grain Improved Minie-ball with my Bore butter/Beeswax lube. It seems to prefer the PRB for loading but the Minie for accuracy. Both are less than 3" at 35 yards but I have only shot this barrel 3 times so far and I have yet to get out all the lead.

Les

If it truly is lead fouling Hoppes and a bronze brush with a little elbow grease will get it out. Slather the bore with Hoppes, let it set for a little while then hit it with the brush.

 

[LSLibelo]

TreeMan,

Thank you.

I'll follow your recommendation.

Les

 

[Freedom]

Birchwood Casey Lead Removal Cloth... amazing stuff for removing lead.

 

[dave951]

Old school way and it does work-
White vinegar/hydrogen peroxide 50/50. Put in the bore, let sit 5 minutes NO MORE. Lead turns to a black sludge and wipes out. Clean barrel as normal. Do not let this get on your stock or blueing.

 

[tom_in_vt]

I’d throw some copper chore boy on a brush and clean the lead out. Shouldn’t take long.

 

[smo]

Rest In Peace Paul V…

 

[doubleset]

When I was shooting NRA high power, I used to use a little electrolysis kit I made to periodically clean out my target rifle and military rifles (Mausers, K31) barrels and it was amazingly effective and easy to use. It's really simple to get the parts (small diameter steel rod, tape or snippets of tubing for insulators, a couple of alligator clips, a few feet of ignition wire, and a little flashlight battery thing from Radio Shack for the couple of D cells). It was unbelievably quick and effective on copper fouling and would remove any lead that happened to be there as well. I believe that if you "tune" the liquid you use in the barrel in terms of acidity, you can target it for one or another metal. Of course, commercial kits are sold for this -- but they'll cost you.

You do need to take some care in how frequently you use it, and also to avoid it electrolyzing your barrel steel ( ). But if it will work for you, it's really slick. To be sure, it's not "period appropriate," but neither are a lot of the modern chemicals being suggested. There are several good threads on this in other forums.

 

[WALT53]

When I was shooting NRA high power, I used to use a little electrolysis kit I made to periodically clean out my target rifle and military rifles (Mausers, K31) barrels and it was amazingly effective and easy to use. It's really simple to get the parts (small diameter steel rod, tape or snippets of tubing for insulators, a couple of alligator clips, a few feet of ignition wire, and a little flashlight battery thing from Radio Shack for the couple of D cells). It was unbelievably quick and effective on copper fouling and would remove any lead that happened to be there as well. I believe that if you "tune" the liquid you use in the barrel in terms of acidity, you can target it for one or another metal. Of course, commercial kits are sold for this -- but they'll cost you.

You do need to take some care in how frequently you use it, and also to avoid it electrolyzing your barrel steel ( ). But if it will work for you, it's really slick. To be sure, it's not "period appropriate," but neither are a lot of the modern chemicals being suggested. There are several good threads on this in other forums.

What are some of the negatives associated with leaded barrels when talking Muzzle loader smooth bores.

I looked down the bore with a bore light of my old shotgun and noticed the bore lined with lead (what I think is lead) but at the same time I do not see that as a bad thing, because the way I see it the lead protects the barrels from rust that may lead to pitting (much like chrome lining) . Now I am aware lead is not a good thing in rifled barrels because it could rob the rifle of accuracy . But as long as the shot gun or smooth barreled gun loads easily, is lead as bad as we make out, and why. I seriously don’t know.
Thanks
Twice.

I find when I shot guite a bit with shot don’t use any lube get a lot of leading also ,but cleans up easy with hopes #9 black powder solvent and patch lube.walt

 

[LSLibelo]

Maybe I'm mistaken but if I use jute or hemp TOW op will that help remove the lead, or would I still need a solvent?

 

[Freedom]

Maybe I'm mistaken but if I use jute or hemp TOW op will that help remove the lead, or would I still need a solvent?

You Never need a solvent....all you need is Birchwood Casey Lead Remover Cloth

 

[LSLibelo]

Here's the update.

I worked the brush, the brush with copper chore boy, with and without the hoppes, no luck.

I pulled the breechplug examined the inside of the barrel, interesting is how I'll describe it. The barrel was not straight walled nor uniform from breech to muzzle.

There really were two areas where the barrel reduces in diameter. The first 4 inches from the Breech, the second 4 inches from the muzzle.

I left the muzzle at .498 after verifying the crown.

As the barrel breech was not flat nor of uniform thickness this was corrected and I installed a new Track of The Wolf TC flintlock breechplug after uniforming and polishing the inside of the barrel.

I spent a good portion of today, dawn 'til noon verifying and enjoying my work. I decided because of the choked muzzle NO PRB, only RB with TOW (this time Jute), not a single clay on the berm survived.

I would have made too much noise at 03:00 getting the shot, so I just made sure I got the shot ready for tomorrow.

To all: Thank you for your suggestions and assistance.

 

[nhmoose]

Try putting the rod in an electric drill. Spin the wrapped brush and wd-40 up and down the barrel for 2 minutes it will be lead free.

Cleaned a couple thousand leaded shotgun barrels in my shop that way. Easy money!

 

[LSLibelo]

nhmoose,

Thank you.

Les