Barrel shapes

[JiminTexas]

I am brand new to muzzle loading and know absolutely nothing about it. I was wondering if there are reasons and/or advantages to the several different barrel shapes. I don't really understand the reasoning behind the swamped barrel. I can see the taper part reducing weight forwward, but why have the barrel flare back out at the muzzle? The rifle that I really want, and don't ask me why, because the only truthful answer that I can give you is that it looks right to me in my mind, is a Roman nose pennsylvania rifle with a nice brass patch box, brass fitings, and a straight octagonal barrel with a fairly fast twist, in about 45 caliber. I just love those fine slim l;ines of the Pennsylvania rifles. Does anyone make a plain tapered octagonal barrel? think that this is the best looking barrel shape on any short stock rifle, muzzle loader or otherwize. If they are available, I might reconsider and go with a half-stock Hawkins/Plains type rifle. I would like to see an adjustable rear sight, maybe even a peep type target sight. I don't anticipate shooting anything tougher than a paper target with this rifle, so I'll keep the bore diamater down a bit to make it a litle more affordable to shoot and a little bit easier on a 60 year old body.
So, my new found friends, where is my thinking gone awry here? Are there better choices? Am I overlooking something? Where di I stasrt looking for this rifle?
I'll keep my questions about locks, set triggers and acoutrements for latter. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thnaks in advance.

 

[Rebel]

Jim, is that you Jim?

 

[silverfox]

Yep looks like we lost him. Hope he makes it back Fox :thumbsup:

 

[JiminTexas]

No this isn't me,l it's just someone that looks like me.

 

[Rebel]

Well darn, thought you might be a long lost pal. Welcome to the forum. Stick around and ask and answer some questions.

 

[szihn]

Yes JiminTexas
Everything you want is available. It's not a big deal to make a rifle in any way you want to.
I have used simple tapered barrels on several occasions in the past. If you want to make one, do it. It's fun. :grin:

Building a nice "Roman Nose" rifle is just like building any other. You measure the customer in the same way, and you fit the stock to him in the same way. It just has a different style. However there are a few different styles of Roman Nose stocks too. Is there a specific rifle you have seen in the past that caught your fancy?

Do it on paper first, and make sure everything works togather. If it won't work on paper, it won't work in wood.
Good shooting.
:thumbsup:

SZ

 

[TANSTAAFL]

Before making an immediate decision, do lots of looking, research, and ask loads of questions as you become more aware of available choices and desires.

Are there any muzzleloaders you know, are there any clubs or shoots in your locale?

IMHO, too many novices leap right into buying a ML, to their later regret.

 

[JiminTexas]

Well, thanks for the responses, but it doesn't really answer my question. I guess that I just don't know how to ask the questions yet. What are the advantages to the diferent barrel shapes with respect to accuracy and fuctionality. I know what "looks good" to me, and I'll soon find out what costs more. Just what, if anything is the advantage of the different profiles? In a full stocked rifle, I believe that a straight octagonal barel "looks" best. In a half stock rifle I think that a tapered octagonal barrel "looks" best. That being said, I want the ballance point of the rifle to be at about 5" to 7" forward of the trigger. Will a tapered barrel on a half stock rifle put the ballance point too far back? Will a straight octagonal barrel in a full stock rifle put the ballance point too far frorward? Where do I start looking for a gunsmith and/or ready made gun that fits the description?

 

[szihn]

In practical terms, the outside countour of the barrel has little to do with it's accuracy.
Accuracy is a function of the quality of the bore.

Countour is all about looks and balance.
A swamped barrel balenced a rifle to the rear much more than a straight barrel. A tapered barrel can do so also, but how far back depends on the degree of the taper.
I posted this pic before, but I will do it here again to illustrate the point.

This rifle has a 46" long barrel, 62 caliber, and as you can see it's not at all muzzle heavy.
If the barrel is of good quality, and the gunsmithing is done right any countour of barrel will eat the center out of a target

 

[benvenuto]

Straight Octagon barels are easiest and cheapest to make and inlet into the stock. In terms of american rifles they are generally found on guns made after 1820.

Swamped, Tapered and Octagon-round barrels are all attempts to to improve the balance of the gun and stop it being muzzle heavy. The swamped shape cuts out the weight where the barrel b\needs less strength and keeps the front sight on the same level as the rear sight. they are found on almost everything made before 1800.

Speaking VERY generally, octagon-round was relatively rare, and different swamped profiles predominant. Straight tapered barels i know little about, apart from having seen them on some late percussion rifles. Let me reccommend "the Gunsmith of Grenville County" by Peter Alexander if you intend to learn more.

 

[Rick Davis]

I don't really understand the reasoning behind the swamped barrel.

According to Wallace Gusler's :bow: video (sorry if namedropping's a no-no) Gunsmith of Williamsburg, the swamp profile is more decorative than functional. Some people that have and use swamped barrels state that it makes the rifle lighter, and places a little more percentage of mass at the muzzle to improve steadiness when shooting unsupported.

The octagonal shape, as I understand it, was more a result of lack of suitable turning machines in early America and gradually became a style unto itself. As Mr. Zihn pointed out, the exterior shape is less important than the barrel manufacturing quality.

The rifle that I really want, ... is a Roman nose pennsylvania rifle with a nice brass patch box, brass fitings, and a straight octagonal barrel with a fairly fast twist, in about 45 caliber.

That sounds a lot like the Traditions Pennsylvania rifle (details) , a mid-range production rifle. The one I have is 50 caliber flintlock, I haven't seen them in any other bore size. I think the only options are flintlock or percussion.

You can still get swamped barrels, but will complicate stock inletting .

If you want a modern adustable rear sight, consider a T/C Hawken fitted with a rear tang sight and globe front sight. Won't be historically correct, but a delight on the range. Lyman makes a similar rifle that already has the features you mentioned. Both are good rifles.

So, ...Where di I stasrt looking for this rifle?

Check the links (above), for more info on Pennsylvania rifles, click ->This

 

[ronrryan]

As to the benefit of swamping, for a period of time I was alternately shooting a 38" swamped barrel and a 39" straight barrel. I have a little trouble with a bad left shoulder and minor differences in balance may make more of a difference to me than to others. The swamped (Haines) 38" rifle was markedly easier to hold up and to shoot because the balance point was much further aft, towards the shooter, rather than forward, and yet did not interfere with the steady "hang" of the gun. If I evr again can afford a swamped barrel, you can bet I will get one. Good smoke, ron in Fl

 

[CrackStock]

The swamp takes a bit of weight from the barrel. In the past, gun makers thought that flaring the muzzle would give more strength. Since then people have often used tapered barrels without trouble. The real benefit is that you have picked out a rifle style and swamped is correct for that style.