Barrel to wood

[oomcurt]

I was wondering....new to muzzle loading. When one removes the barrel for cleaning...and then resets it...does the point of impact change? Reason I ask...seems to me if the barrel fits that loose there has to be some play somewheres and would not that affect its aim as to where it was before and where it is now? Also, seeing as how on half stock rifles there is only one wedge, will that eventually wear and then need a replacement along with perhaps some stock work? One more question and then I'll quit for now. Years back I had a 30-06 on a mannlicher stock...while the first and second shot were right on using a paper target, the third and after were all over the place. Does this problem exist with full stock muzzle loaders? See, I was told my problem with the 06 was pressure between the barrel and stock in the wrong place..some recommended full contact all the way and others recommended it only on the 1st half of the barrel forward of the breech. Many thanks for reading through all this and thanking all in advance who reply.
Curt

 

[Zonie]

My muzzleloaders always hit in strange places on the first shot out of a clean barrel.
This seems to occure with barrels which have been removed for cleaning (as I usually do), and with barrels which were not removed for cleaning (which I have done).

Most old timers call this first shot a "fouling shot", and it is a common enough occurance that many shoots will allow you a "fouling shot" off of the target.

Whether this is caused by the clean barrel, or from removing and reinstaling the barrel, I do not know.

Any other opnions on this?

Oh, by the way, I'm going to move this thread to the General Area because it affects us all.

 

[Huntinfool]

I never heard of the type problem your talking about in full stock ML. It takes place in modern rifles because as the barrel heats up it's touching the stock and it swells with heat!

To start with a ML generally doesn't get that hot like a sporter type centerfire does and I believe they are more forgiving also.

I never took the barrel out even when I had a wedged type rifle. I built a rack to hold my ML in so that I could clean it and drain all solvents or lubricants into a pan. It makes for some easy cleaning!

Chuck

 

[roundball]

I've wondered about this too, seen the occasional post...

I don't see this situation of POI changes with the heavy and comparitively shorter TC Hawken barrels I use, and have wondered if the POI issue might be characteristic of the much longer barreled traditional rifles?

Or,

Since I use a lot of borebutter, I've wondered if it's possible that the film of borebutter still in my barrels give the effect that a 'fouling' shot is said to do?

PS: I make my POI comments from routine range observations of groups fired, not from measuring and plotting each 1st hole placement every time with a mircometer...if you're talking about some kind of tiny 1st hole differences like that, then I can't really comment

 

[Huntinfool]

Roundball my longrifle has a 43 1/2 " barrel and I've never noticed any difference at all in poi as some say they have!

Mine seems to hit to the same poi regardless of whether it's clean or fowled.

I never use bore butter so I think it may be just the characteristics of some barrels. :m2c:

Chuck

 

I asked this same question of a barrel being removed and replaced if it will effect the POI of the shots afterwards.
The answer i recieved was this. The shot placement will not change due to the front and rear sight has not been moved and if aligned as usual then it will still shoot the same since the barrel and sights are removed as one unit.
I agree with huntingfool on the centerfire rifle that uses smokeless powder shot from a caseing with a centerfire primer will create more heat and it can be shot faster than a muzzleloader can and therefore heat could be a problem with a centerfire more so than a muzzleloader.
If the wedge starts to show slop init you may need to replace the wedge and they can be ordered from TOTW

Woody

 

[Gary]

In my opinion, yes. However, considering the (comparative) short range of our flintlock rifles, it won't really make the difference to the game or even in a match. Remember, the wood is subjected to humidity too and any expansion/contraction will affect the barrel harmonics. But we're shooting against like guns which will also be affected and we're not up against David Tubbs and the space gun crowd.

 

[Huntinfool]

Hey Woody,

You said, "If the wedge starts to show slop init you may need to replace the wedge and they can be ordered from TOTW"

I had a Charles Daly half stock perc. rifle before I got my longrifle. I noticed the wedge pin was loose it almost fell out on me once.

I thought I'd have to do some major work to fix it. I told my mentor about it. He smiled and pulled the wedge laid it on his bench vice and wacked it with a hammer one lick.

It put enough bend in it to make for a tight fit. The rifle shot the same! Things in the ML world are a little less complicated for sure. Black powder shooting as a whole seems to be a lot more forgiving than the newer space aged guns. :m2c:

Chuck

 

[roundball]

He smiled and pulled the wedge laid it on his bench vice and wacked it with a hammer one lick. It put enough bend in it to make for a tight fit.

Sounds familiar...I bought a .58cal GM flint "drop in" barrel for a Hawken stock and the wedge pin tenon is different on GM barrels compared to TC's, and the pin was loose.
Opened the jaws of my vice an inch, laid the pin across the opening, used a hammer & punch to tap a 'bow' in it...fit good and snug after that

 

[2172]

I pull the bbls on my Lymans and my CVA and T/c..all hooked breeches...I see no difference in point of impact. And, whacking a key with a hammer works well on loose keys..Hank

 

[jtmattison]

Maybe I'm just lucky but mine alway's hit the same on the first shot as they do on the 21'st shot.
I've never had the need for a "fouling shot".
I remove my barrel every time I clean.

Huntin

 

[roundball]

I pull the bbls on my Lymans and my CVA and T/c..all hooked breeches...I see no difference in point of impact.

Right...has no effect on mine either

 

I have taped the lug it's self and they have tighten up do that too Chuck. I will try the hit the wedge with a hammer next time I have one start to lossen. although I only take the barrel off a couple times a year any more. I now clean with the Barrel attached to the stock.

Woody

 

[guncobbler]

I had a TC Renegade that shot dramatically different from clean first to wiped second shot. Was not happy with it so I replaced it with a GM round ball twist barrel that I am very happy with. Best gun investment ever made. GC