Barrel Wall Thickness

[SOLANCO]

There are two sxs shotguns in this room with me. A Pietta 12GA percussion and a Fox 16 GA unmentionable. The tube walls on the Pietta are significantly thicker than those of the Fox. This aroused my curiosity and I went and examined the tubes of my other shotguns, which are all unmentionables. Mostly sxs but also a pump and a semi auto. Lots of variation in tube wall thickness, but I could not correlate the thicknesses by gauge or action type or choke or chamber lengths. Of course those with screw in chokes needed a certain amount of steel at the muzzles.
The thickness of the barrel walls affects the weight and balance of the guns. I wonder how the various designers arrived at their conclusions on barrel wall thickness.

 

[SOLANCO]

My bad. Pedersoli not Pietta. The question, however, remains.

 

[rchas]

I don't know.... But I am sure the decision is influenced as much by lawyers as it is by engineers.

 

[waksupi]

Looking at original shotguns, many had barrels that were almost paper thin at the muzzle.

 

[chsnlions]

I have thought about this same thing on swamped barrels, i have a couple that are thinner than I would have thought at the muzzle and are swamped. The thickness in the middle of the barrel has to be very thin. Also this wouldn't apply on a smooth bore or shotgun typically, but a deep dovetail cut into the barrel could leave a pretty thin wall

 

[hanshi]

The pressures generated by black powder peaks while still in the breech portion and lessens greatly by the time the ball/shot reaches the thinner middle section.

 

[SOLANCO]

The pressures generated by black powder peaks while still in the breech portion and lessens greatly by the time the ball/shot reaches the thinner middle section.

OK. So why did Petersoli make the barrel walls on my ML so relatively thick at the muzzle?

 

[Sparkitoff]

In contrast, my 1968 Pedersoli shotgun weighs 5-pounds 9-ounces and the barrels are quite thin compared to a 2004 Pedersoli of the same gauge that weighs 7-pound 4-ounces. The 1968 model says on the barrel 1 1/8-oz shot 72-grain powder and the 2004 model says 1 1/4-oz shot and 89 grains powder. I much prefer the lighter one and wish I could find another for sale.

 

[SOLANCO]

Looking at original shotguns, many had barrels that were almost paper thin at the muzzle.

And yet here they are. Many still in active use.

 

[SOLANCO]

Lest it seem I am carping, I have many sxs shotguns and love to use them. A gun does need some mass in the barrels to help with proper swing. But it does not need the equivalent of a brick lashed under the muzzles.
As said, I wonder why the designers/makers sometimes put so much weight in the barrels.
Considering the age of my guns, the men who could answer are likely in coffins. That said, it is a wonder that there does not seem to be a clear and existing consensus on this.
There is a 20 GA W.C.Scott with 2.5 inch chambers that weighs next to nothing. My favorite dove gun. Use very light loads and it abuses the birds much more than it abuses me. A Benelli auto loader that I love for flooded timber ducks. An easy gun to operate when you are chest deep in January water. Can actually set it on its butt underwater and still use it with just a few moments notice. All time favorite is a Sauer hammer double in 16 GA with 2.5 inch chambers. It is built on British lines with a straight grip and splinter fore end. Absent the Scott, all of these guns have some mass in the barrels which helps swing. Shooting flying with the Scott is like killing birds by pointing your finger.

 

[Brokennock]

OK. So why did Petersoli make the barrel walls on my ML so relatively thick at the muzzle?

Just a guess. Maybe they are using the same barrels for guns with changeable chokes as for fixed choke or cylinder bore guns? Saves them money.

 

[SDSmlf]

My Pedersoli 12 gauge double proofed in 1978 weighs in at just under 6 pounds, 5.8 pounds if I recall correctly (don’t have my data sheet in front of me).

At some point after 1978 the Pedersolis went off their diet and started gaining weight, with more recent examples I have handled being well on the wrong side of 7 pounds. I have heard a few reasons for this weight gain, from too many lawyers in the same room, to Pedersoli wanting to standardized their barrel blanks so screw in chokes could be installed.

No evidence or reliable sources to verify any reason, so speculation at best. But the scale doesn’t lie…..

 

[Art Caputo]

Barrel thickness in SXS doubles, which can vary greatly, is generally a function of the guns total weight, balance, and grade of steel, with proof testing using over-charges being the final word. While intended use(heavy ducks, game birds, etc.) certainly effect the specification, I would expect contemporary muzzleloaders(ie. Pedersoli) to forsake weight and balance, for reasons of safety/liability due to the greater potential for errant loading practices…All, while attempting to maintain a feasible cost/price structure by using a lesser grade steels. IMO.

 

[Sparkitoff]

Yet Pedersoli offers a new “Old English” model 12 gauge that is a pound less than their “Traditional” 12 gauge model.

 

[Brokennock]

Yet Pedersoli offers a new “Old English” model 12 gauge that is a pound less than their “Traditional” 12 gauge model.

I haven't looked into this. 1st thoughts when I read your post....
Does it come with a screw in chole option? I am guessing not.
Chrome lined barrels? Again, I'm guessing not, and just working off an admittedly poor memory I seem to recall their other shotgun barrels being lined.
Maybe given the name and if these two things are true, they are going to market it toward upland hunters and folks who are less likely to duck hunt? Obviously I could be way off base here....

 

[Sparkitoff]

It does not come with choke tubes, but neither do the "traditional" models anymore. Some advertising says it does have chrome lined barrels, but different vendors have somewhat different information on their sites. I see it listed as 6-pounds 8-ounces and I see it listed as 6-pounds 12-ounces depending on what site you use. If you take Pedersolis' weight in kg, 3.1 it would be 6-pounds 13-ounces. The literature says it has tapered barrels for better handling weight. The "Traditional" model is 7-pounds 7-ounces.

 

[FlinterNick]

Miroku Brown Bess’ barrels were very thin about 7” from the muzzle, less than .750 thick for a .75 caliber gun is pretty thin, however the breeches were heavy and the taper on the barrel is of exceptional quality. Probably one of the best BP barrels I’ve ever seen made from 4140 steel.

 

[rkg1]

I have 2 Pedersoli's one lightweight and the other the heavyweight. Almost never carry the heavyweight. Their literature says heavy for better handling but it sure doesn't make for better carrying. Hunting rabbits you do a lot more carrying than shooting so if handling is a problem practice more. After 4 hours of carrying a 5 pound shotgun even it will get heavy.