Barrels that are not 12L14 steel

[Philip A.]

Which manufacturers supply barrels that are not 12L14 steel?

I know, I know... Thousands and thousands of barrels made from that cold-rolled screw stock perform very well and have not blown up... But that steel is simply NOT what I'd pick if I was making my own barrels, even though it's good enough for usual BP pressures.

Anything one makes is "good'enuff" somewhere, but where do you place the bar? Rolex parts and Timex parts both have a good'enuff limit, but it's not in the same place...

 

[Larry Akers]

Green Mountain uses 1137 steel for their barrels.

 

[LRB]

Which manufacturers supply barrels that are not 12L14 steel?

I know, I know... Thousands and thousands of barrels made from that cold-rolled screw stock perform very well and have not blown up... But that steel is simply NOT what I'd pick if I was making my own barrels, even though it's good enough for usual BP pressures.

Anything one makes is "good'enuff" somewhere, but where do you place the bar? Rolex parts and Timex parts both have a good'enuff limit, but it's not in the same place...

Ed Rayl, if he is still making them. Rayl uses 8620, last I heard

 

[rich pierce]

Rice made and is maybe still making lightweight smoothbore barrels of (I think) 4140.

 

[Cruzatte]

Interesting question. Wishing only to satisfy my curiosity, may I ask why it makes a difference to Mr. Philip A?

 

[Philip A.]

Interesting question. Wishing only to satisfy my curiosity, may I ask why it makes a difference to Mr. Philip A?

Because 12L14 is cold rolled steel, non-descript, lead-alloyed, easily machinable stock. No steel mill would ever recommend it for the manufacture of rifle barrels, because it has several characteristics that would make it highly undesirable for centerfire applications.

This doesn't matter much for normal use in a thick walled, relatively low-pressure black powder-only barrel, and since 12L14's excellent machineability makes it much easier to bore, rifle, and machine barrels out of it than out of chromoly steel, it has gained widespread use in the industry.

However, such trifles matter when things go pear-shaped, and a clumsy user ventures into experimental rocketry thanks to a forgotten ramrod, a double charge, a short started ball, or any such shenanigans: here, the safety factor can get pretty slim, and sometimes fall below 1, the magic number.

I'm looking to make a light rifle in .62. This means a big hole in as-thin-as-possible a barrel profile.

This is why it matters to me that my barrel is made of a material more suited to the application than 12L14...

 

[Sandro_Ventania]

Why not use 304 stainless stell?

 

[LRB]

Because 12L14 is cold rolled steel, non-descript, lead-alloyed, easily machinable stock. No steel mill would ever recommend it for the manufacture of rifle barrels, because it has several characteristics that would make it highly undesirable for centerfire applications.

This doesn't matter much for normal use in a thick walled, relatively low-pressure black powder-only barrel, and since 12L14's excellent machineability makes it much easier to bore, rifle, and machine barrels out of it than out of chromoly steel, it has gained widespread use in the industry.

However, such trifles matter when things go pear-shaped, and a clumsy user ventures into experimental rocketry thanks to a forgotten ramrod, a double charge, a short started ball, or any such shenanigans: here, the safety factor can get pretty slim, and sometimes fall below 1, the magic number.

I'm looking to make a light rifle in .62. This means a big hole in as-thin-as-possible a barrel profile.

This is why it matters to me that my barrel is made of a material more suited to the application than 12L14...

The thinner you go, the more harmonics come in to play with accuracy.

 

[Philip A.]

The thinner you go, the more harmonics come in to play with accuracy.

Yes, but that's no benchrest rifle... Mostly hunting, and I love getting close.

 

[Philip A.]

Why not use 304 stainless stell?

In general, or personally? In general, stainless is hard to machine, and I doubt that the stainless looks would appeal to the flintlock crowd...

Personally, I don't like stainless guns. Stainless galls, and doesn't have the warmth of a nicely finished carbon steel. It doesn't even feel the same to the touch, and to work with. Even for knives I prefer carbon steel to SS.

 

[PathfinderNC]

Ed Rayl, if he is still making them. Rayl uses 8620, last I heard

Is that good? I have an yet-unfired Ed Rayl .62 rifle barrel from 1996.

 

[Stykbow]

@Philp A. My opinion is that all rifle barrels are made to stand up to proper use. Overloads, forgotten ramrods, etc. are mistakes. Those same mistakes could rupture a centerfire barrel as well. In my line of work I often hear people complain about not building in time to fix problems. I tell them that’s because the schedulers plan for stuff to be done right, not for it to be messed up. Same situation with the barrel steel chosen.

 

[rich pierce]

Is that good? I have a yet-unfired Ed Rayl .62 rifle barrel from 1996.

Rayl barrels are used by many top shooters. Some feel they need a bit of a break-in. I had a .50 chunk gun with a Rayl barrel for about a year and it shot awfully well. It had placed well at big chunk shoots. When I moved to Vermont the club-mate who sold it to me bought it back. Not many nearby chunk shoots here. Woods walks with a 24 pound gun would not be fun. I couldn’t shoot it offhand.

I’ve never heard a top shooter say they got a Rayl barrel that wouldn’t group tightly.

 

[Philip A.]

@Philp A. My opinion is that all rifle barrels are made to stand up to proper use. Overloads, forgotten ramrods, etc. are mistakes. Those same mistakes could rupture a centerfire barrel as well. In my line of work I often hear people complain about not building in time to fix problems. I tell them that’s because the schedulers plan for stuff to be done right, not for it to be messed up. Same situation with the barrel steel chosen.

Mistakes do happen, and things are built with a safety factor "in case of".

In this case, the material was chosen not for any safety reason, but against safety reasons: that steel is easy to machine, it saves time and money, and increases the useful life of your cutting tools.

It has poor corrosion resistance (I don't like that), and from what I understand, poor characteristics in fracture tests with a stress raiser.

I've been involved in investigations on multiple incidents of blown-up CF rifles from a very famous brand, who thinks it's better (cheaper) to fight litigation case-per-case than to recall their rifles due to a design defect. The bean counters are happy, and people keep getting maimed, with life-altering injuries...

I stated the reasons why I'd rather have a barrel made from a different material. There are a few barrel makers (incidentally, at the top of the quality game, not at the cheap end...) who do not use that steel, and go for more expensive and harder to work materials. Maybe they know something...

 

[leadhoarder]

I think we are getting too caught up in details here. Just get a rifle from a reputable manufacturer and go shoot it. The main concern is to make sure you never dryball

 

[Stykbow]

Mistakes do happen, and things are built with a safety factor "in case of".

In this case, the material was chosen not for any safety reason, but against safety reasons: that steel is easy to machine, it saves time and money, and increases the useful life of your cutting tools.

It has poor corrosion resistance (I don't like that), and from what I understand, poor characteristics in fracture tests with a stress raiser.

I've been involved in investigations on multiple incidents of blown-up CF rifles from a very famous brand, who thinks it's better (cheaper) to fight litigation case-per-case than to recall their rifles due to a design defect. The bean counters are happy, and people keep getting maimed, with life-altering injuries...

I stated the reasons why I'd rather have a barrel made from a different material. There are a few barrel makers (incidentally, at the top of the quality game, not at the cheap end...) who do not use that steel, and go for more expensive and harder to work materials. Maybe they know something...

I get it, I really do. I’m sure a bomb proof barrel can be made, but it may be so expensive that they couldn’t sell it. Whether we like it or not, gun makers are in business to make money, so if overbuilding affects profit they’re not going to do it. I’ve seen nothing that shows 12L14 to be dangerous, unless we do something stupid, so I’m not concerned. If you want a barrel from a different steel I’m sure you can track one down and if you do I hope it’s a top shelf shooter for you.

 

[dave_person]

Hi Philip,
Jason Schneider at Rice Barrels can probably make you a custom barrel with 4140 steel. It won't be cheap but I am sure he could make any spec you require. The 62 caliber smooth bore below has a very light barrel made of 4140.

It is very light but recoil is punishing even with only 70-80 grains of 2F powder.

dave

 

[Philip A.]

Hi Philip,
Jason Schneider at Rice Barrels can probably make you a custom barrel with 4140 steel. It won't be cheap but I am sure he could make any spec you require. The 62 caliber smooth bore below has a very light barrel made of 4140.

It is very light but recoil is punishing even with only 70-80 grains of 2F powder.

dave

Very nice piece! Is that a Kibler lock?

What's the gun's weight?

I'll contact Jason, thanks.

 

[dave_person]

Very a nice piece! Is that a Kibler lock?

What's the gun's weight?

I'll contact Jason, thanks.

Hi,
It is a Chambers round-faced English lock. When tuned, it is an impressive lock. I made a short barreled English flintlock rifle with it that fired 671 rounds without a misfire using up 10 flints. I even flashed a pan of powder with it using a rounded piece of quartz in the jaws.

The first gun pictured weighs 5.5 lbs (about 2.5 kgs)

dave

 

[Commodore Swab]

I do, bronze is beautiful.