Beginner Patch Questions

[HighlyAdaptive]

Hi, I was just wondering, do I need a patch to shoot my Traditions Hawken? Also, if I do can I make one out of an old blanket I have?

 

[Cruzatte]

Usually one shoots an undersized ball from a muzzle loading rifle, anywhere from .005" to .010" smaller than bore size. So if your rifle is let's say a .50 caliber (a bore of ½ inch) then you would need a ball somewhere in the .490" to .495" range.

The patch acts as a gas check, and also helps impart spin to the ball as it leaves the rifle. If you merely loaded an undersized ball without patch, accuracy would suffer markedly. So yes, you do need a patch.

I don't think a blanket will work as it is much, much too thick, and would make the ball extremely difficult to load, if not impossible.

Various patch materials are available, through a supplier like Track of the Wolf, Dixie Gun Works, Log Cabin Sport Shop, and others. You will also need to use some sort of lubricant on the patch. This helps to ease the loading process, and also helps keep fouling softer and therefore the barrel easier to clean.

There are a lot of threads on this topic, so I won't bore you with the details here. I hope this helps.

 

[HighlyAdaptive]

Thanks for the information. My problem is I am going to the range tomorrow and I really want to fire my Hawken but I do not have any patches. Do you think paper would be a good patch or a very thin cloth?

 

[Zonie]

If you are shooting a lead roundball, the ball should be 5 to 10 thousandths of an inch smaller than the bore diameter and patched with a suitable material.

If you are shooting a lead bullet it must be just a few thousandths of an inch smaller than the bore and no patch is used.

Typically, a .50 caliber barrel will shoot a .490 diameter ball.

The patching should be pure cotton and strong.

A good thickness for a rifle would be about .015".

I really doubt that old blanket or T shirt material will be strong enough to take the heat, pressures and stress of being shot out of your rifle.
Usually, material like that ends up being torn to shreds and getting an accurate shot is just about impossible.

I mentioned pure cotton because it can take the heat from the burning powder.

The synthetic fabrics like nylon, rayon, polyester etc usually melt when the gun is fired.

The patch needs to be lubricated before it is loaded.
Almost any vegetable oil or shortening will do the job. Some people really like Olive oil.

Use just enough oil or grease to dampen or lightly coat the patch. It shouldn't be really wet.

If you use a .490 diameter ball along with a .015 thick patch, you will need something to start them into the barrel.

A small plastic or rubber mallet will work.
A small board or round wooden ball works too. Just give it a whack with the palm of your hand.

Once started into the barrel, it will be pretty easy to push it down to the powder load (if the barrel isn't badly fouled from earlier shots).

 

[HighlyAdaptive]

Thanks. I have some old 100% cotton shirts so that should work. I will get to work on greasing them. Would paper work since I have heard of people making paper cartridges.

 

[Cruzatte]

Paper is for military cartridges. You could use paper cartridges. Military rifle regiments did. But I think you'll be happier with the accuracy of a cloth patched ball.

 

[mooman76]

I quite often use old cotton dress shirts(in good shape of coarse) for patches. I have also used cotton flannel which isn't all that strong but works under light loads. A thin cotton denim will also work.

 

[HighlyAdaptive]

Is a military cartridge not very accurate?

 

[coloradoclyde]

Thanks. I have some old 100% cotton shirts so that should work. I will get to work on greasing them. Would paper work since I have heard of people making paper cartridges.

Cotton shirts like T-shirts make great cleaning patches but suck for shooting patches...
Go to your nearest Walmart or fabric store...get blue stripe pillow ticking...

Make sure to wash it before you use it.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Also, here is the manual for your gun....in PDF format. https://www.traditionsfirearms.com...als/PercussionFlintlock_manual_1362674741.pdf

 

[HighlyAdaptive]

Thanks. I'll try to swing by Walmart. If not I'll just see how the old t shirt patches work.

 

[Onojutta]

These guys have given you great advice. Zonie is spot on about the thickness. It's important to maintain the consistency of the thickness of the patch material, otherwise you may find your groupings really change if you change patch thickness.

You can also buy the pre-lubed pre-cut patches that come in a little zip-lock bag. I used those for years and killed lots of deer and out shot plenty of guys at local shoots who were cutting at the muzzle.

Of course the more authentic thing to do is to get your own fabric and cut the patches at the muzzle of your rifle. They say you get a little better accuracy because you don't have to worry about centering the patch like you do with pre-cuts (I never noticed a difference). Cutting at the muzzle is more work and more mess, but it's more fun especially if you're trying to be old-school. If you're new to muzzleloading, the pre-cut ready-to-go patches might be a good thing to start with.

 

[HighlyAdaptive]

Really thankful for the great advice. Just wasnt able to get to the store today. I'm going to the range tomorrow first thing in the morning so I just ended up cutting up some old shirts for patches. I will definitely use their advice next time though. Many thanks!

 

[tenngun]

Is a military cartridge not very accurate?

Military paper cartridges were made for quick reloading. A patched round ball is close to the bore size. A .50 is around.490 or .495. A military cartridge will be loaded with a much smaller ball, .575 in a .62 or a .69-.71 in a .75. With that you might shoot a one foot group at fifty yards. You can hunt with that but it isn't the best. For target shooting its disapointing. A patched ball should shoot two inches or less at fifty yards.
At your local wal mart or fabric store you get pillow ticking. Cut it in to inch and a half squars and they will shoot well.
Check out some of the threads on cleaning your gun after shooting. You need to do cleaning very soon when your done, don't skip this.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Is a military cartridge not very accurate?

Military paper cartridges were used for a couple of applications.

One was in a military smoothbore. Since the cartridge was designed to load quickly, there was not a tight fit to the bore and accuracy suffered.

When the Minie' was adopted for used in rifled muskets, the paper patched Minie' conical with a hollow base would load easily. Upon firing, the hollow base would expand to fill the rifling giving the Minie' bullet superior accuracy over a paper cartridge round ball load for a smoothbore musket.

I don't think I can properly explain a paper patched bullet as used in some false muzzle loading procedures.

What you need to do is to stay with the cotton patching. There is pillow ticking, mattress ticking, pocket drill, or duck canvas.

You may be able to get a 4 or 5 inch group at 50 yards with t shirt cotton patches, Groups will shrink markedly when you use ticking.

 

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

The Traditions Hawken is a great patched ball shooter.

I highly suggest you do yourself the favor of taking the time to read and learn about your rifle and get some load data from those that shoot the same rifle as yours.

My loads for my Hawken Woodsman:

.015 - .018 and .020" patches all do wonderful
70-90gr Goex 2fg/American Pioneer / Pyrodex RS - Select
70-80gr Pyrodex P

Are the sweet spots for powder brand and charges.

.490" round ball fits great, I feel that the .495" ball would be a very tight fit in these barrels due to the .499" bore diameter.

 

[Vaino]

Before you acquired your MLer, having read a few books on the subject would have helped you a lot.

Also...patience is virtue that should also have been acquired.

Good luck on your outing......Fred

 

[coloradoclyde]

I highly suggest you do yourself the favor of taking the time to read and learn about your rifle and get some load data from those that shoot the same rifle as yours.

And how to clean it.....before the first shot and after....
I'd hate to see the next question start with "Help my gun won't fire" or "why is my gun rusting"......

You may be excited....But your patience will be rewarded.

Definitely do some reading.... :thumbsup:

 

[Stumpkiller]

Blanket - no. Sheet - maybe. I use old flannel or cotton sheets for patching or cleaning squares all the time.

 

[Many Klatch]

I'm sure that you know this but I'll restate the obvious. Make sure that you either use real blackpowder or Pyrodex to load your gun. Do not use any other modern smokeless powder even if it is black in color. Smokeless powder will blow up the gun and hurt you.