Beretta over & under

[rayb]

went to the Texas Muzzleloader Assn fall shoot this weekend. wanted to shoot trap with my Beretta over & under 12 ga. Some may remember that the Berettas were a commerative of 400 or so years of gunmaking , released back around 1980 or 1981, nice work, came complete with all accessories, etc. I had a lot of problems with misfires; changed caps which helped some, lots of brushing, wiping etc., that I need to think about and experiment with to get a better procedure worked out. One of the shooters mentioned that there had been an article in Muzzle Blasts about a "fix" for the Berettas to cure the misfire problem. Does anyone remember such an article or maybe what date it was, or even better yet have a copy or done whatever it was? Apparently something about boring out or cleaning up metal in the breech plug areas. Thankn you for any help, suggestions, or experience you may have.

rayb

 

[musketman]

Does the Beretta use #11 or musket caps?

 

I'd expect the "FIX" would be in freshing the inner channel for ignition. The plugs will have to be removed for this. One of them will be radiused(cut away), and the other full round at the back to be removed first - probably - the way some English guns were made.
; I expect you should have a BP gunsmith do this for you - NOT a modern type as they have funny ideas concerning BP and pressure & thickness of steel required for safely - their Black Powder knowledge pertains mostly to heresay and mith, like some BP writers of the 1970's. (they only needed to read Robert's Book to dispell those rumours)
; Hotter caps only address the symptoms- whereas repairing the channel attacks the problem.
: Is there a cleanout screw? If so, measure it up to see if the channel can be enlarged, bearing in mind thickness of steel to the outside should maintain .080" min. (I'd prefer .1") If so, that might be the fix, otherwise the plugs have to come out.
NOTE!: I expect the long channel side is the problem ignition bore - and it may require relieving at the bottom to allow powder into the channel itself - perhaps. I can remember what they looked like from the side, but not the breech configuraiton at the rear surface for removal purposes. Soaking in mineral spirits will loosenthe plugs. Cap the nipple with a piece of leather, hammers down, then pour 4 ounces of mineral spirits into each bore and let sit on it's tang for 1 week, each day, rapping the breeches with a wooden short starter knob to help loosen any hardened oils or greeses in the threads. It works for me.

 

[rayb]

it uses No. 11 caps

rayb

 

[rayb]

Thanks for the ideas on freshning. That tracks with what i was told earlier. The plugs are set up to be removed, a wrench for them was included with the accessories that came with the gun. I will try the mineral spirits technique and see what I have after i get the plugs off.

Thanks

rayb

 

[ploeg]

I checked out one of the Berettas a dealer near me had, I think still has it. I wanted it for a shooter but had some misgivings about a couple of things. Like the weight of the hammers, also I wondered obout the long channel the fire from the cap has to travel for the lower barrel affecting reliability.I e-mailed The Berreta office in Italy and they told me it could be fired with lite loads but was designed as a collectors gun and not for real use. Needless to say, I let it pass and eventualy got a deal on a Pedisoli side by side that was ment to be shot and it functions :sorry: flawlessly, even with extended shooting without cleaning.

 

[rayb]

Thank you for the reply. I knew they were marketed as "400 year commerative" back in the 80's when i got it, but had not heard that they weren't really meant to be used. Maybe i will try to use it as a skeet gun with the apropriate light loads. The loads they recommended did seem a little light to me anyway.

Maybe this is a good excuse to put together another shotgun....

I hope your Pedersolli SxS does well for you.

Thank you for your response, and good shooting.

rayb

 

[AJFedak]

Rayb,
:m2c:I have two of these Beretta's and a friend of mine has one. I can say with confidence that the first one I bought has more then 5000 rounds through each barrel. I use it to shoot skeet and for hunting. I have so many rounds through them that the hammers had to be tightened on their posts. I have loaded 3 drams fffg and 1 1/8 to 1 3/8 ozs. of shot for hunting. Skeet use 2

 

[sheriffjohn]

I also have one of the Beretta o/u's bought it new in the 80's. Came without the case but with all accessories. My friend, the warden, also purchased one at the same time. I'm very glad to hear a discussion on 'em as they were scarce as hen's teeth around here and there are/were very few BP shotgunners still.

I put away my m/l shotguns for waterfowl when lead shot went out as I was afraid of the softer steel in the old guns and subsequent damage to the bores. Either of you ever use the o/u with steel shot?

Also ...does the barrel band come loose on your Beretta?

Thanks!

Sheriff John
(Retired Missouri Sheriff)

 

[AJFedak]

Sheriff John,
I use bismuth for shooting over decoys. The initial cost is high but in the long run it is cheaper than buying factory loads for modern guns. last year I took the Beretta to Katy, Texas, for sandhill crane hunting. For a back-up gun I aslo took a 16 ga. flinter.

As for the bands coming loose. It has become a habbit with me to pull down slightly just after I step into the shooters box. I have noticed the bands loosening so now just a gentle tug. All is well.

Not only do I own two Beretta's, I bought one in "kit" form from ASM. They received permission from Beretta to sell kit O/Us. The biggest difference between the Beretta and the kit is the barrel weight. The ASM barrel is heavier, other wise they are the same. With the heavier barrel I was able to have a jug choke installed in the top barrel. Now I have cylinder in the bottom and 0.008 jug choke in the top. This makes for a great shooter for hunting.

Sincerely
AJ/OH

 

[rayb]

Thank you AJ/OH & Sheriffjohn for your information.

I've not used stel shot in mine, only lead so far.

I've not had a problem with the barrell bands loosening, but my experience has been mostly at the trap range or "waterhole waiting" for dove, so i haven't carried it for long periods which might change things. :results:

I remember some of the Berrettas being sold in "Muzzle Blasts" a feww years back, but i'm not familiar with ASM.. the choke sounds like what i want, but i thought my barrels were probably too thin for that. If the ASM version is still available, i might look at it

Who did your choke work? Somewhere in my books i have a
pamphlet by VM Starr about cutting chokes.. maybe I'll get to unpack my gun books after my next move...

Thanks again for your input

rayb

 

[sheriffjohn]

I'm jealous of the choked barrel !! Mine throws consistent patterns with lead, so I'm hoping steel/bismuth will do the same. I had been using 85 gr of ffg with some ancient alcan card and fiber wads with lead shot. They shot fine and I have perhaps a couple thousand left in the basement.

However, a friend sold his Knight 12 guage and gave me a sack of Knight shot tubes (very long and quite thick) which might protect the bore from steel/bismuth much better.

I used to do all my wingshooting with MLS 25 years ago, then picked up some new friends who didn't do black powder, so sorta got away from the ML shotgun thing. I did have the pleasure of spaking with VM Starr on the telephone about black powder shotgunning when I was a young man. He was a true gentleman.

Now ..another question...although I killed quite a few ducks years ago with MLS (lead shot days), I did not own a flint shotgun. For the past two years, I've taken my 12 guage long fowler on several hunts to bag my first duck/goose flying with a flintlock. So far, EVERY time I've tried to shoot one flying the thing would misfire. When I take 'er to shoot cripples, she goes off every time.

Any hints on keeping my flinter firing in the damp? I don't have this problem in the deer woods, nor on the range, but then again ...it's not 25 degrees and I don't have my labrador splashing all over everything, either...

Any ideas?

I've never used one of those "knee" cover things..are they worth fooling with or should I just change the priming powder more often?

Thanks!!

John

 

[musketman]

I've never used one of those "knee" cover things..are they worth fooling with or should I just change the priming powder more often?

I do both, why take chances...

Give yourself every advantage...

 

[rayb]

AJ/OH, do you have a contact for ASM? I didn't find anything with a web search. I'd appreciate anything you might have.

Thank you

rayb

 

[AJFedak]

rayb,
ASM is Armi San Marco. They are in Italy. That's as much as I have for contacts. Every now and then one appears for sale on either a forum or firearms type e-bay.

Sincerely
AJ

 

[AJFedak]

John,
How do you store your flinter in the blind. Is the gun held vertical? maybe your frizzen isn't tightly closed and the powder could be shifting away from the touch hole. I use a bead of bees wax around the pan to frizzen and to barrel contact points. I try to keep the gun with the priming powder towards the touch hole. And I change the powder more frequently. This helps, but the priming powder will absorb moisture much more rapidly in the cold and wet conditions. The small granulation doesn't do us any favors. In my trade gun (16 ga.), I use Goex FFFg powder and also prime with Goex FFFg. When I use Goex FFg I prime with Goex FFFFg. Blackpowder duck hunting,it's the best!!!

Sincerely
AJ

 

[rayb]

Sorry, i should have figured that out .......

Thanks for getting me straightened out.

rayb

 

[sheriffjohn]

Sorry for the delay in getting back. I've been at our farm working on plumbing problems.

I really appreciate your insight! Up to now, I never really thought about how I hold the gun. Most of my hunting is from a layout boat, so the gun is apt to be anywhich way depending on what's going on. Having had experience with condensation while moving into and out of cold/warm during deer seasons, I generally leave the flint guns out in the truck the night before and don't bring them inside until done hunting.

Then again, the marsh is a much damper environment than the deer woods. I've always used ffffg for priming powder, and generally either fffg or ffg in shotguns. I've not tried the beeswax dam soluntion before ....I will definitely give that one a "go".

Several years ago, I gave up on the traditional horn for waterfowl due to dampness and use plastic containers of various types for pre-measured powder charges. At least when something takes a dunking, your whole ammo cache is not lost.

Another observation came to mind ...many of the shots were rather elevated (overhead) which would certainly change the relationship of priming powder to touch-hole...

Only one way to solve this ....go hunting more often !!

Thanks!

John