Bess on Pawn Stars?

[tree]

On last nights Pawn Stars a Brown Bess was brought in
That was marked 1762 Grice. The expert pronounced it
Authentic and the owner turned down $15,000. Assuming
This was not just brought in to have something for the show
I was curious if some of you more expert than me thought.
The 1762 Grice made me doubtful at first.

 

[pargent]

They are rare but I know of only one in the USA , MOST LIKELY :bull: FYI it would pull twice that price

 

[kingsax26]

what exactly is a grice brown bess? why is it so rare?>

 

[thecapgunkid]

If I'm not mistaken, Grice is the Lock maker. Kings Arms were assembled according to winning bids in an RFQ to assemble locks, stocks and barrels stored in armories. How'd the show end up?

I try not to watch reality shows because they tend to be so staged as to not be real...

Although Moonshiners is an entertaining stupid contest...

 

[tree]

The owner turned down the $15,000 offer and left with the gun. If it was fake then it was very well
done. It appeared to me to he a SLP. The expert
did not address the issue of what exact model it was just said that it was authentic. My concern
is the number of reproductions with the 1762 Grice
markings that an expert forger could make look
authentic.

 

[MacRob46]

The owner turned down the $15,000 offer and left with the gun. If it was fake then it was very well
done. It appeared to me to he a SLP. The expert
did not address the issue of what exact model it was just said that it was authentic. My concern
is the number of reproductions with the 1762 Grice
markings that an expert forger could make look
authentic.

I saw that the show would have one on but did not get to watch it. If it was an authentic Grice long land pattern then it would not be hard to tell it from one of the Pedersoli versions. One made from TRS parts by a skilled builder who knows how to age a firearm would be another matter entirely. I will see if I can look at it on demand or wait until it comes around again.

 

[Alden]

It appeared to me to he a SLP. The expert did not address the issue of what exact model it was just said that it was authentic. My concern is the number of reproductions with the 1762 Grice markings that an expert forger could make look authentic.

Couldn't be real -- Ike said so: "There was no such thing as a SLP during the F&I War."

 

[JD Peppergrinder]

I to have my doubts just because history channel just so happen to have a premiere of Sons of Liberty. :2 For any one wanting to view the cut of pawn stars. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MVHBXCg-50k

 

[mhb]

FWIW...

I watched the program, and I'd say it was a long land pattern: I don't know how tall their 'expert' is, but the muzzle came about level with his nose. I don't recall anyone on the show describing it as a SLP. I did wonder about the lock date, because repros are out there, but overall, it looked pretty good.

mhb - Mike

 

[user 20224]

Pawn stars is an entertainment program and as such would have things to use on the show. I have heard that most of the items shown are either rented or purchased for the shows.

 

[MacRob46]

Thanks for posting the link. The seller dude is crazy for thinking it is worth $65,000. The gun was in good shape but not perfect - I am sure it is a long land pattern by the way - but Rick was extremely generous. The provenance back to the Rev War Vet was interesting but really hard to prove that it was his and, of course, the patriots used a lot of guns other than Brown Besses. Who was the vet any way? Was he famous?

Liked the expert's comments about loading. I have read and heard about that technique being used by rangers but I doubt very much that troops of the line ever did it. Anybody know different?

 

[pargent]

Yanks refere some what incorrectly to the maker of the lock as the maker of the gun ,Grice did make locks for various Ordnance arms at this point in time ,now locks usualy had a lead time of 2 years before they were used on a gun ,(not always ), now Grice was one of the suppliers asked to supply complete muskets (slp ) before the SLP was adopted , these muskets were NEVER issued to British troops going to North America .

 

[pargent]

For that price I would expect a genuine Red Coat as well , 30k tops in absolute mint condition with it's original bayonet .

 

[MacRob46]

For that price I would expect a genuine Red Coat as well , 30k tops in absolute mint condition with it's original bayonet .

Me too and a young man to carry it for me!

 

[Snapper]

Didn't see this particular episode so I didn't see the musket but remember, this is a pawn shop. They're never going to offer you what an item is worth because they have to make money in the end. That's why the typical offer is about 50% of what an item is worth.

That's all for now. Take care and until next time...Be well.

snapper

 

[Col. Batguano]

Probably right. The show is just a gussied up version of the Antiques Road Show, with a few more interesting items, scripted personalities, and drama thrown in there to make it interesting. Generally, the stuff they highlight is presented in a more interesting manner than the Antique Road Show though, to me any way.

 

[omarick1948]

Don't know about that Bess, but that Chumlee needs to be fired to make the show more believable. How long would you or I have a job with the attitude and work ethic that clown has?
MTCW

 

[Ike Godsey]

...

Sorry - I deleted my post. Put someone on the ignore list instead.

Thank you.

Ike

 

[user 20224]

Wise choice makes the site much more enjoyable.

 

[Artificer]

I don't watch "Pawn Stars" regularly, but have caught the show in the past. The "gun expert" they had on the show is pretty good with WBTS and later arms, but not so good on earlier arms. That is not meant to be a hard criticism of him, as no one can be truly good in all time periods of all guns.

Having said that, I did not feel comfortable with him pronouncing it authentic just by patina/condition alone. I wish the lock engravings and the barrel stamps were visible in the video.

I did notice some things wrong about the musket even with so short of a time to look at it in the video.

The top jaw screw has a hole in it and that is NOT correct for a 1762 lock. Top jaw screws with a hole did not come out on British locks until the 1770's. That top jaw could have been a replacement during the AWI or later, but it still makes the lock suspect.

Also, the screw heads of the Feather Spring screw and Steel (frizzen) screw look as if they were at least cleaned or polished and may be replacements as well. The Steel (frizzen) screw looks like it may have a parallel cut turnscrew (screwdriver) slot, which did not come about until the early 19th century at the earliest.

Personally, there is NO way I would pronounce that musket authentic without AT LEAST pulling the lock and examining the inside of the lock, the lock screws and the stock mortise for the lock.

Gus