Between Two Rifles

I am about to purchase a round ball only rifle for hunting and I can't choose between a GPR in 54 cal 1-60 twist and a Austin & Halleck in 50 cal 1-66 twist.
I will be hunting mature Mule Deer bucks that can weigh 300+ lbs. The shots could be on the long side because it's very open country so for these reasons, I'm leaning twards the 54 cal.
What do you think, would I be under gunned with the 50 cal? Assuming I'm a good shot, would the 54 cal. give me more of an killing range? Thanks.

 

[musketman]

I would opt for the .54 because it would be less effected by wind drift on those long range shots...

In the world of long shots and open fields with nothing to break up the wind, a heavier ball would be king...

Once the round ball got to it's target, the .54 would have more retained energy, due to it's larger mass...

 

[jtmattison]

Musketman nailed it.

Huntin

 

[roundball]

.54

 

Diffinitly the .54 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

.54
In the world of the roundball you can ONLY increase mass by increasing caliber.
With the roundball for anything larger than whitetail, bigger is always better.
By the way, I would consider a long shot to be 125 yards max!

 

[Huntinfool]

I agree with what everyone else said reguarding caliber and energy! But if I had to choose between a Lyman GPR or an Austin & Halleck I like the A&H! Plus I like the 1 in 66" twist better than 1 in 60" of the GPR! I would probably go with the A & H but that's just me!

As far as the .54 giving you more range, consider both .50 & .54 like Maxi said 125 yards tops. I would try to keep it under 100 yards myself.

I wouldn't rely on the .54 for extra range as placement is paramount with any roundball or any projectile for that matter. I sure like my .50 it's 1 in 66" Douglas Barrel!

Keep Yer Powder Dry Fellers,
Chuck ::

 

I switched from 50's to 54's quite a few years ago and have never regretted the choice. I don't even own a 50 anymore. Obviously the 54 is my choice. All the reasons stated I consider true also.

Vic

 

[Plains99]

A .54 is a highly versatile caliber, especially for the round ball shooter. For a .54 I'd rather have the 1:60 twist than the 1:66 because it tends to stabalize the heavier ball a bit better. A 1:60" twist is much better than a 1:48" if all you are hunting with is round ball. With conicals the opposite is true. I also believe personally that although both are beautiful rifles, the Lyman is more robust, which rightly or wrongly translates to me as being more dependable.

 

[Deadeye]

P99, could you expand some more on your theory of a faster twist for the .54. I believe it's accepted as fact that the bigger the ball the slower the twist. Smaller calibers like .32 and .40 will have 1/48 but real large cal will have 1/100 or more. I have a .54 that's 1 in 70 and it's very accurate. Not saying your wrong just hadn't heard that before. ::

 

You know, I was scratching my head on that comment too? Like stated above Green Mountain offers it's 54 cal. round ball replacement barrel in 1-70. I just called them a few days ago and talked to them about getting one.

 

[Darkhorse]

I'm not sure what he meant by that statement but, when asked why he rifled his barrels 1 in 56 instead of a slower twist, a prominent barrel maker responded; "Because the 1 in 56 seems to work better with a larger range of loads than the faster twist. Whereas the 1 1n 60 and slower gives best accuracy with the heavier charges."
I haven't worked up a hunting load yet, but my 1 in 56 twist .54 gives better accuracy with 1/2 charges than either my 1 in 48 or my 1 in 60.

 

Ross Seyfried did a very interesting series of articles in the "Double Gun Journal" on Forsyth style rifling, big bores, their accuracy and the twist of those barrels. If I remember correclty, which I may not, some of the big 12, 10 and 8 bore round ball rifles had twists up near 1-200. From Seyfrieds tests and results, as was alluded to, big bores and big powder charges using a round ball require a slow twist. They were also quite accurate. I believe I would opt for a 1-70 twist for a 54 in a custom barrel. However, I'd much prefer a nice Purdey double 12 bore rifle.....but the wife won't let me hock the house!!!!

Vic

 

[Stumpkiller]

Mmmmmmm. The Double Gun Journal. Another reason I wish I'd a been born rich instead of just good looking.

Another vote for .54 cal. I just put all my eggs in one basket and it's going to be a 44" .54 cal flintlock. I've been shooting that caliber since 1979 and it remains my favorite for a rifle.

 

"I just put all my eggs in one basket and it's going to be a 44" .54 cal flintlock."
========================================================

Lets see! Off the top of my head, that should put the entire length of that rifle at right-around 63".

I know adults that aren't that tall! I sure hope you're not drivin' a Beetle Volkswagen to your favorite shootin' spot.... lol! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif ::

 

[Huntinfool]

This post is as much about the rifles as the calibers. I will say that Lyman stands behind their rifles. A friend of mine cracked his stock somehow. He called them and they said send her back. They replaced the stock with a brand spankin' new one free of charge!

Even though it was over 2 years old. Turn around time was quick also about 2 weeks if I remember correctly! I don't know much about A&H one way or the other.

Keep Yer Powder Dry Fellers!
"The Chuckster" ::

 

[Stumpkiller]

Lets see! Off the top of my head, that should put the entire length of that rifle at right-around 63".

I know adults that aren't that tall! I sure hope you're not drivin' a Beetle Volkswagen to your favorite shootin' spot.... lol! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif ::

Close! A VW Jetta Sport Wagon 1.8T But it's got a sunroof so I'm gold.

I'm 6'3" and getting squinty. I figure this will get the muzzle up where I can see it to load it, and the front (and rear) sight closer to the target so I can get them almost in focus at the same time. :boohoo:

Works out closer to 60" (Don't forget the breech plug comes almost to the trigger on a flintlock).

 

Sharps- Forsyth's favourite was a 1/4 turn in the length of the barrels - being 24" barrels giving 96" twist rate. When you get up into the really big bores, like 16 and larger, about any twist from 60" on up(slower) will shoot just fine. With the really slow twist, you can't use enough powder to strip the ball, evwn with only 3 or 4 thou rifling. With a 60 or 66" twist, the goruves have to be .010" or deeper to hold, and the combo also has to be tight. The slower the twist, the hgiher the velocity and a thinner patch can be used.
: With a .69 (14 bore) and the 60" or 66" whatever it was (GreenRiver bl), the ball shot accurately right up to 165gr. 2F GOEX. I suppose that gave me the same velocity as 1860 rifle powder charge of 130gr. The little testing I did at 200gr. showed no loss in accuracy, so the ball/patch/velocity combination was still within the accuracy confines of the 60 or 66" twsit.
: Now, what the(66vs100\ or slower) faster twist also did for me, was to get virtually the same accuracy whether I was using a light 3 drs or heavy 6dram hunting long range.
: What I'm sying is that the .54 cal will shoot very well with a 60 or 66" twist with as much powder as your likely to shoot, and a slower twist isn't necessary. The worse scenario is to have a very slow twist with 20 thou rifling(or deeper). This requires a VERY tight combo to seal those deep grouves & almost makes use of hardened balls impossible with heavy charges. The slower the twist, the shallower the rifling can be & easier loading is the benefit, as long as the twist is far enough to stabilitze the ball(which doesn't take much). Hardened balls are necessary for dangerous or extremely dangerous game, like the big cats, cape buffalo & Elephant. Over here, I'd prefer a LARGE hardened ball for Grizzleys and Coastal Brown Bear.
: A haven't tried a 100" twist with 3 drams but would hazzard a guess that it would be less caccurate than the 66" twist with THAT load. The fine accuracy I got with heavy loads shows that I still wans't exceeding it's limits.
: THE ADVANTAGE of the slower twists is to allow shallower rifling, and thinner patches with hard balls. This is explained quite well in Forsyth's book. "The Sporting Rifle and it's Projectiles"- by Lietenant James Forsyth 1858, printed in 1860- originally). The book also has schematics on explosive ball(bullet) moulds. Pretty Cool Stuff. (PCS)
Daryl

 

You must have Forsyths book....ok, 'fess up, where'd you get it?

Evidently I didn't remember correctly!!!

Enjoyable reading Daryl. I like reading about those old guns.....now, WHERE'D YOU FIND FORSYTH'S BOOK?!?!

Vic

 

I bought it back in the early 80's through The Buckskin Press. NAPR, ya know. It really should have been the IAPR considring there was a fair smattering of Canadians in it. That little book certainly got a going over in the Primitive Rifleman or whatever it was called.
: I read it aobut 3 times before fuly understanding it all. Most of it was very true, but some a bit dated. He sure was right-on about the rifling twsits, deep grouves in big bores, etc.
: Most delightful reading for sure.
Daryl