Black powder gunsmithing

[CaptainKirk]

I am extremely interested in learning the craft of muzzle loader gunsmithing, from a hobby standpoint and possibly moving up to a hobby-income status.
I've built a few kit guns in the past, worked on a number of centerfire and rimfire modern arms and done a bit of polishing and trigger work on my C&B revolvers.
That being said, I would take the position of calling myself a greenhorn and would want to approach it from that respect...."no experience". I have a basement workshop area to be designated for my gunsmith shop and at present it's a "blank canvas", with a nice, freshly built workbench.
Since I am committed to a career and business at this point in my life, I would not be able to travel to any conventional school or training setting, all my learning would have to be internet and/or book learning, self-taught.
I could waste a lot of time and money on the wrong things at this point...
If anyone has any recommendations on books or websites regarding this subject, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks!

 

[CaptainKirk]

By the way, I am only interested in black powder smithing/building at this point; primarily C&B pistol and cap/flint rifles and pistols.

Oh, and I might add...I'm primarily interested in doing this in a Hershel House sort of way...mostly old-school, hand tools type of thing. Old school, 18th and 19th century craftsmanship.

 

[paulvallandigham]

The January issue of MUZZLE BLASTS, the monthly magazine of the NMLRA will list the Gunsmithing courses offered through the organization, and taught at Bowling Green, KY. in May-June each year. They are the best classes available to teach you Black Powder gunsmithing. Conner Prairie, North of Indianapolis, also offers classes. Use your search engine to find other class locations.

That is the best way to learn. Oh, and every summer, at Chuck Dixon's Muzzleloading Shop, in PA, he holds Dixon's Gunmaker's Fair, a 3-day event that has seminars taught by experts covering every aspect of BP gunmaking. Demonstrations also take place there, from forging a barrel around a mandrill, to rifling it, to every aspect of wood carving, beginning with selecting the wood, and finishing up with demonstrations by engravers.

If there is a Trade School that Just Teaches BP gunsmithing, I have not heard of it. There is a wonderful "school", of sorts, in Iowa, called " Toad Hall", that has a website with that name. You might check with him about "schools".

 

[CaptainKirk]

Thanks, Paul. I will investigate.... :v

 

[longcruise]

I'd say that the best bp gunsmiths are evolved from bp gun builders. Nothing teaches about bp gunsmithing like knowing the workings of the rifles/pistols from the inside out. There is probably not much business out there for a bp smith. OTOH, if it is something that you would do for your own gratification then that's a whole different thing.

 

[CaptainKirk]

Initially, yes...that's the plan.
If it evolves into something more, then so be it.
If not, then I can be happy knowing I can build a killer BP gun in my shop! :thumbsup:

 

[MSW]

CaptianKirk, i am in pretty much the same position as regards an inability to take time off and go to any one of a number of seminars and such (i.e. Connor Prairie, Bowling Green, ect.) and i share your frustration.

Same with my woodworking hobby- sure i'd love to go to Atlanta (especially in the middle of a Vermont winter) and take a class on how to build a chair, but between job and farm responsibilities, it's just not gonna happen.

I console myself with some good videos from AmericanPioneer Videos
http://www.americanpioneervideo.com

give 'em a try!

good luck with your project, and in the meantime, make good smoke!

 

[Capt. Fred]

Another source I've found helpful is "The Gunsmith of Greenville County". It is currently out of print but the publisher has a waiting list and it is supposed to be re-printed before too long IIRC. It is Scurlock Publishing.

[email protected]

 

[MSW]

ditto what Cpt Fred said... sorry- i assumed that you had a bunch of books. Couldn't agree more about the Gunsmith of Grenville County. Try to get Shumway and Kindig, too. Anything with a picture and measurements is worth taking a look.

 

[matt denison]

First you need a consuming desire, then be willing to invest $50,000 - 100,000.00 and about 20 years so that you can work until midnight for ten bucks an hour. That works out to room and board. But think of all the fun you'll have working on your friends guns for free. They'll all be hanging around with their cheapo junk guns drinking all of your beer telling you how jealous they are of you 'cause you're a gunsmith and work for yourself. Reality is that you work for the bank and the IRS.

Are you sure you really want to do this?

Seriously, start by READING everything that you can get your hand on. Buy parts and get building. Practice on your friends guns. I started out cleaning guns, any guns, that friends and aquaintences would allow me to. Those were modern guns but the experience was invaluable. My heros growing up were millwrights and gunsmiths. I always wanted to be just like them - can build or fix anything. That's the consuming desire part. It only took 40 more years to become a gen-U-ine gunsmith/builder/manufacturer.

Buy tools. If you need a 10-32 tap then buy the whole set. If you need a file buy all five available 'cause you'll needd them. Keep an eye out for used machine tools like lathes and milling machines and be willing to travel to go get them. Belt sanders, drill presses, a hundred drill bits in number and fractional sizes and learn how to use them effectively. Can you weld? -better learn. I have seven vices and use every one of them. If you are seious then you will need air compressor, band saw, oxy-acceteline set up is mandatory. Better install an exhaust fan in your basement.

I hope you understand that I'm aproaching your question with a little humor but am also a little bit serious too. I love what I do but it ain't easy to get started and can be daunting until one day it comes together and if you're lucky break even.

 

[Capt. Fred]

Laffin reminds me of a time when I was talking to a friend of mine who is self employed. He said "Being self employed is really great, it started out hard but within 4 or 5 years I was able to get down to only working half days. You know, 12 hours." :thumbsup:

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

Most of whats been said is true, long hours, low money, folks expecting you to work for free,

One question you must ask yourself (and be honest with your answer) "can you make a mistake, work thru that mistake, and finish the project anyway"

The post about tools and books is true, buy the absolute best tools you can afford, and the more books you acquire the more knowledge you have at your fingertips.
Good Luck

 

[CaptainKirk]

Unfortunately, it's beginning to sound a lot like my present "hobby income" pastime...repairing and restoring classic Jap motorcycles. You've never met such a bunch of whiney, cheapskate crybabies in your life, all expecting you to donate your time and effort "pro bono" so they can make a killing somewhere down the line.
I've had to part out one such bike after the owner stiffed me for over $800.00 in labor, then abandoned it.
Anytime something is somebody's "hobby" they expect it to be inexpensive or free.
And I wind up with a garage full of expensive tools that barely pay for themselves......
I'll still pursue this regardless, if nothing else than for my own satisfaction. Call me crazy... :youcrazy:

 

[Vaino]

Presently am building "spec LRs" because I work at my leisure, am ret'd and don't need the money and prefer not to work w/ a customer, but "spec LR" selling is difficult and many times ends up w/ a consignment sale which takes a sizeable share of the sale price. So.... I thought about all the lousy trigger pulls on the lower priced, factory made MLers and for a brief time thought about advertising to correct all those hard to pull triggers. Then reality set in and the liabilities scared me off. Gunsmithing is not a well paid trade and years ago it was but the modern mindset that buys cheap first, won't support gunsmithing. There are exceptions, but not many. Long hours and low pay are the rewards....Fred

 

[CaptainKirk]

I will definitely check out these vids...they look good! :thumbsup:

 

[jerrywh]

I would recommend 2 things. #1 you need to know how to heat treat and case harden steel. I recommend that you not take too much advise from guys on the internet. There are some very knowledgeable guys on the net but there are too many that will tell you how to do something even if they don't know how themselves. Get a good book on blacksmithing. Hershel's tapes are good but he doesn't go far enough into detail or explain why some things must be done a certain way. Then get a book on the heat treatment of steel. I never read a book written by a gun builder on the subject that didn't have mistakes in it. The machinist Handbook is about as good as there is and it's cheap. You need a pyrometer about $150.00 cheaper on EBay.
There is a tremendous amount to learn. As a apprentice project you should build a flintlock from scratch. Never fear to try something. you can do a lot more than you might think you can.
This hobby will give you a lifetime of enjoyment and satisfaction.
PS. You can make a 6 figure income if you get into the right field of this but it will take a long time, a lot of investment, dedication and study to get to that point. Long rifles don't pay that well.

 

[fm tim]

The American Gunsmithing Institute has DVDs on heat treating and case hardening.

 

[CaptainKirk]

Thanks, Jerry.
In fact, I saw a book/DVD set on the net today that covered blacksmithing. I sort of scrolled past it because I wasn't really interested in that topic per se, but I can see where it would be advantageous.
I'm not looking to get rich off this. I'm already part-owner in my own business and see how hard it is just to break even on a day-to-day basis.
I want to learn this stuff more because I don't know how to do it, than anything. And I hate that, not knowing how to "do stuff".
Also, I DO plan to retire...someday. From my present career, that is. Sorry, but I can't be happy hanging out in Wal-Mart shuffling up and down the juice aisle all day. I've gotta "mess with stuff". Constantly. That's why I restore motorcycles, and work on guns and reload. Tinker, improve, make it better than original.
If I can accomplish that much, I'll consider it a success. :grin:

 

[CaptainKirk]

The American Gunsmithing Institute has DVDs on heat treating and case hardening.

Do they have a link, or just Google it?

 

[joeboleo1]

I too am interested in learning more about heat treating and such. Tried googling Machinists Handbook and got a couple different hits. Could you tell me the author?? There is one by Birney, I think. Thanks, appreciate the tip on this book.