Black powder or Pyrodex

[Codger Craig Wilcox]

Shoot - change your patch material or patch lube if you want even more variables!

Not a fan of Pyrodex, never got reliable targets - always laddering my shots, even carefully measuring the charge. But that's just me. More important was getting rid of the deleterious perchlorates. BP doesn't leave those.

Best as I can, I'll stick with Holy Black. Not going to fuss over what other good folks use.

 

[lgrimes]

I agree with you. I used pyrodex many years ago, but it was never as consistent as black powder and seems to be harder to clean. I tried it in BPCR and found the same.

 

[SDSmlf]

Stop moaning it’s good to be a fit old fart. 81 in March Lucky you in USA the police took away my shot guns incase I might shoot intruders, got 25 muzzle loaders but no police S1 permit to shoot them buy BP
, prison if I am caught making it, so I keep my guns on the wall, shoot squirrels with my 177&22 bsa pcp Scorpio air rifle, shoot ionx and compound bow and arrow too, got a 450/400 double unmentionable as it’s obsolete, so I cuddle it and dream of Africa London seems to be a Moslem town with a Moslem Mayor, so what’s new in this green and pleasant land called England. Haha I wish you all well from across the pond . Ps Wife don’t look bad after a good iron

Always enjoy the photographs and different perspective you offer in your posts. Thank you. Keep it up.

 

[akroguy]

Have lots of both. Won't use Pyro until the black is gone and/or cannot be found anymore.

I have enough to last me several lifetimes.

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

use pyrodex in liberal amounts when required...

 

[Urban Coyote]

Given my druthers I'd shoot black powder. Where I live black powder is pretty much a mail order proposition so I get it when people need to shoot the "P" stuff. As you can tell the whole substitute powder thing draws a whole lot of opinions. Some are based on experience while others are hear say.

When Pyrodex first hit the market back in the mid 1970s I shot it some. However at that time I could find plenty of GOEX locally. I've shot it off and on thereafter. In my experience I've found when measured volume for volume I get about the same point of impact. Also, Pyrodex leaves less fouling in my guns. I've never noticed a difference in cleaning. I will say I generally try to compress my loads a bit more when using Pyrodex. When I first started shooting it I did have some hangfires but there weren't magnum percussion caps back then, at least not that I was aware of. Since I've found magnum caps ignition seems more reliable. As for shelf life, I used to worry it but I've shot some that's been stored for well over 20 years right along side some recently purchase Pyrodex Select and I'll be darned if I can tell the difference.

Like I said, there's a lot of opinions out there about the "P" stuff and I'm not here to challenge anyone else on the subject. I'm just communicating what my experience has been.

 

[stephenprops1]

That's rich!
Nobody has told anyone to "not participate".

I would suggest you go back and read the whole thread.

People complain about powder not being local; we tell them where to get it.
People say they only want one or two pounds; we tell them that is not practical - and it isn't.
People say they can't afford it; well I can't afford a lot of things either. So those activities are clearly Not for me either - hard facts, life just ain't fair.

We give these 'people' all the options possible:
Where to buy it
How to buy it
Suggestions to afford it

Still the whine and cry that they "Can't".....and then their come back is "BUY IT FOR ME SO I CAN PLAY TOO!"

Instead of blasting responses like the last one I just gave, maybe YOU should give the poster YOUR grand response of wisdom that will put some powder in his store...enlighten us all so we ALL can gain from your wisdom.

Sometimes people say they can't afford something because they don't want to sacrifice anything else. I have known people that say they can't afford a vacation, but they have plenty of tattoos, cigarettes and beer. I have kept a budget every year for the last 45 or 50 years. It is flexible, but it allows me to monitor and control my spending. For 2023 I only had $35 unaccounted for. As I have told others, if I spend too much in one department, I have to cut costs in another department to come out even or ahead.

 

[oldschoolhunter55]

What in the world are you talking about????

Are my flintlocks not real flintlocks, I need to get in touch with Mr. Kibler and Mr. Chambers and tell them they did not sell me real flintlocks and see what they say about your assertion.

How much have you had to drink today?

Edit, is my black powder not real black powder cause it is not Laflin and Rand but modern Swiss?

dang. now i feel sad.all i got is caplocks and cap and ball revolvers. ugh better not mention my powder i use. but i did find a can of black powder

Im going back to the Political Section where it is safer...

yep. seems a little heated in here but honestly sometimes things get heated up. but i enjoy reading everyones opinions on stuff. try not to take anything personel.i know im very limited to knowledge on these type of guns. mind you i used to hunt with caplocks in the 80s. but i was young and dumb back then. didnt really know much about it.but i killed a bunch of deer. reckon i done something right. so im back here now to learn from all of you.i respect each one of you. just trying to learn to be better and safer.

 

[oldschoolhunter55]

Given my druthers I'd shoot black powder. Where I live black powder is pretty much a mail order proposition so I get it when people need to shoot the "P" stuff. As you can tell the whole substitute powder thing draws a whole lot of opinions. Some are based on experience while others are hear say.

When Pyrodex first hit the market back in the mid 1970s I shot it some. However at that time I could find plenty of GOEX locally. I've shot it off and on thereafter. In my experience I've found when measured volume for volume I get about the same point of impact. Also, Pyrodex leaves less fouling in my guns. I've never noticed a difference in cleaning. I will say I generally try to compress my loads a bit more when using Pyrodex. When I first started shooting it I did have some hangfires but there weren't magnum percussion caps back then, at least not that I was aware of. Since I've found magnum caps ignition seems more reliable. As for shelf life, I used to worry it but I've shot some that's been stored for well over 20 years right along side some recently purchase Pyrodex Select and I'll be darned if I can tell the difference.

Like I said, there's a lot of opinions out there about the "P" stuff and I'm not here to challenge anyone else on the subject. I'm just communicating what my experience has been.

thank you friend.

 

[Gordoncourtney]

Stop moaning it’s good to be a fit old fart. 81 in March Lucky you in USA the police took away my shot guns incase I might shoot intruders, got 25 muzzle loaders but no police S1 permit to shoot them buy BP
, prison if I am caught making it, so I keep my guns on the wall, shoot squirrels with my 177&22 bsa pcp Scorpio air rifle, shoot ionx and compound bow and arrow too, got a 450/400 double unmentionable as it’s obsolete, so I cuddle it and dream of Africa London seems to be a Moslem town with a Moslem Mayor, so what’s new in this green and pleasant land called England. Haha I wish you all well from across the pond . Ps Wife don’t look bad after a good iron

I shoved this in here on barrel length etc as it’s seems to be current topic . Also added to original string no longer showing

Good morning bit if sun in London but damp and cold. On the subject of does the bullet excelerate after leaving the barrel, I had the notion it might absorb energy and thus keep excelerating for a few feet. Just don’t know. I put some shots over my crono with my 177 pcp bsa Scorpio, best I could do . Seems up to 10 ft from the crono in 12 inch at a time distances it neither speeds up or slows down . Here’s my figures 744 ft sec 2” from crono out to 10ft. 754. 750 . 755. 754. 752. 752 ft sec So seems the pellet just might slow down a bit , but as figures go totally inconclusive. Just a bit of fun for conversation.

I wish you well

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

There is no doubt that a discernible and noticeable "woosh" can be observed when loading equal and separate amounts of Pyrodex and Black Powder into a Flintlock with just powder, wad and no ball. The P-Dex burns much slower as it,s chemical composition is geared toward,s being a propellant. So much in fact that you can hear the difference. The use of Pyrodex is a good thing for some people as they may have no resources for BP. It keeps them shooting and in the game which is not a bad thing. I have found out that a 50/50 mash of 3f and P-Dex makes a reliable pan powder. The easily ignited BP with the higher temp P-Dex seems to give consistent results. However, In the end as always a thorough cleaning must be employed.

 

[sussexmuzllodr]

Stop moaning it’s good to be a fit old fart. 81 in March Lucky you in USA the police took away my shot guns incase I might shoot intruders, got 25 muzzle loaders but no police S1 permit to shoot them buy BP
, prison if I am caught making it, so I keep my guns on the wall, shoot squirrels with my 177&22 bsa pcp Scorpio air rifle, shoot ionx and compound bow and arrow too, got a 450/400 double unmentionable as it’s obsolete, so I cuddle it and dream of Africa London seems to be a Moslem town with a Moslem Mayor, so what’s new in this green and pleasant land called England. Haha I wish you all well from across the pond . Ps Wife don’t look bad after a good iron

Thanks Gordon.

 

[Snooterpup]

It is sometimes surprising how threads just turn in to arguments and picking at each other. Are we just a bunch of grumpy old farts with nothing better to do?

Yup.

 

[pjckm]

Hi Gordon, Besides confiscating your shotguns, did the Gestapo also confiscate shoes in England? HaHa.

 

[oldschoolhunter55]

If you can't find a club locally that shoots blackpowder, or some out of the way shop that sells blackpowder and supplies in a short distance drive, then your best bet would be to place a 5 lb order thru Graf's. Looking at their web page this morning that would land you 5 lbs of Graf's/Schuetzen powder for 165 delivered to your door.
If you're shooting a cap lock rifle then Pyrodex will work ok, if a flint gun then you will likely encounter ftf or massive hang fire unless you drop a 5 to 10 grains charge of black in first.
You will need to take extra cleaning and oiling steps after firing to clean it up and prevent corrosion due to the nature of the potassium prechlorate they use to coat the basic black the stuff is made from.
Accuracy should be fine, but it may take a bit of load testing to find a good load, just like it does when changing any powder.
Good luck and have fun.

well said

 

[BuffaloSoldier]

Being fairly new to the sport, I shoot what I have.

 

[Bucks Co]

Amazing! Some people shoot Pyrodex with all the fervour of a religious convert. Personally I will not use it in original piece or a quality custom barrel. In a chrome - moly tube it may be ok - just: Accuracy is not the issue its the residues and burning temperature of the substitute that's the problem; ok if you clean properly and quickly after shooting you lessen the effects. But Pyro is an order of magnitude MORE corrosive than Black and burns at about 3 times the temperature of Black; seriously reducing the life of your tube. The 1981 Gun Digest had concerns about the corrosive nature of the stuff. A local Gunsmith reported to me that he'd worked on a poorly cleaned Lyman Great Plains shot with Pyro had worse rust in the breech and the barrel was pretty much 'Toast' when compared to an original that appeared to have been put away dirty 150 years ago!! Just shoot Black, after all it is the real thing!

 

[Gordoncourtney]

Hi Gordon, Besides confiscating your shotguns, did the Gestapo also confiscate shoes in England? HaHa.

No I am Just a poor pensioner cannot afford shoes I got a catamaran I made , club just phoned sunk on mooring. Least warmer weather , second time it has happened Don’t need it. With Holts gun auction coming up , blue sky, sun shining but cold west of London

 

[waksupi]

Amazing! Some people shoot Pyrodex with all the fervour of a religious convert. Personally I will not use it in original piece or a quality custom barrel. In a chrome - moly tube it may be ok - just: Accuracy is not the issue its the residues and burning temperature of the substitute that's the problem; ok if you clean properly and quickly after shooting you lessen the effects. But Pyro is an order of magnitude MORE corrosive than Black and burns at about 3 times the temperature of Black; seriously reducing the life of your tube. The 1981 Gun Digest had concerns about the corrosive nature of the stuff. A local Gunsmith reported to me that he'd worked on a poorly cleaned Lyman Great Plains shot with Pyro had worse rust in the breech and the barrel was pretty much 'Toast' when compared to an original that appeared to have been put away dirty 150 years ago!! Just shoot Black, after all it is the real thing!

If one must use it, the barrel needs cleaned three days consecutive to avoid that.

 

[Rum River]

I coached the local 4-H Shooting Sports blackpowder discipline for about ten years. Our state's 4-H rules said we could only use Pyrodex. The guns were either T/C Hawkens or Lyman Great Plains rifles. Once a week from early June through late August. Cleaned by the shooters with Ballistol at the end of each night. Never rusted or pitted anything. The better shooters had the occasional 50 yard offhand cloverleaf.