Blackpowder's an explosive?

[davemcg]

Can someone maybe help get me up to date, and I'm sorry if this is a "dead horse" to a lot of you, but I'm really feeling like I just crawled out from under a rock.

I got out of reenacting in 1985, recently got bit by the bug again and am getting back into it.

I've hunted off and on over the years with BP, but when you're just sighting in and maybe getting a shot or two off in the feild powder lasts along time, I think I've been running off the same horn for 20 years.

So anyway today I (naively) go to my local sporting good store to get a can of GOEX - well they don't sell it.
No worries, I'll go to one that's more shooting orientated, from them I found out BP is now classified as an explosive, they have shelves of smokeless powder, and cartridges, BP substitutes but no real BP. I cracked a joke about "oh yeah BP is an explosive, unlike all this modern powder."
Well the guy at the counter tried to explain to me that Black powder will explode, smokeless powder will just burn, I think he said it's "just physics" (sic?) :shake:
Anyway I'm just sort of stunned, and I've babbled on quite a bit, here's my questions;
1) When did the BATF designate BP an explosive?

2) What's the difference in smokeless powder "burning" and black powder "exploding" I've always heard BP has a slower more consistant "burn rate" than smokeless.
If you pour out a pile of each and light it would wouldn't both of them flame up, and if you confined each in a container with a tightly fitted lid and attached a fuse wouldn't each "explode" I mean isn't it the burning gasses of either smokeless or BP which sends the projectile out of the muzzle of the gun?

3) On another thread it was suggested going to the GOEX website and looking for a distributor, there's not one in CO at all, does that mean no one sells it in CO, do you have to have a special permit to buy the stuff any more?

Sheeesh, where've I been?
Thanks for letting me rant

 

[rabjr]

Believe it or not, you can order it online and have it shipped to your door from a few places. Heres one.
http://www.grafs.com/powders/3522

 

[Little Wattsy]

You see, after the movie "Pirates of the Caribean" came out the Liberal mind humped Democraps realized taht BP was a "dangerous explosive" They saw it right there on the TV dontcha know.... So now they have saved the world from Pirates by outlawing the deadly stuff!

 

[roundball]

Being in the explosives category is because of its low ignition temperature, not because it explodes. Very, very few things actually explode...dynamite does, nitro does, etc...but not BP...the low ignition temp is the culprit.

I order a case of Goex from a distributor up in PA...you can order from any of them and a case price is very low per pound...or as was suggested, a couple places sell a minimum of 4-5 pounds...higher cost per can of course.

Maybe there are some other re-enactors who might go in with you and split a case...

 

[davemcg]

Being in the explosives category is because of its low ignition temperature, not because it explodes.


Maybe there are some other re-enactors who might go in with you and split a case...

Well, having a lower ignition temperature (flash point?) certainly makes more since than the guy behind the counter telling me "Black powder explodes, smokeless powder burns" That just sounded like someone parroting a guv'ment warning label to me.

Yeah, I can order it online, it just seems weird to do.
As I said I've been out of the loop for 20+ years so I don't know a lot of folks yet to go in on orders with, Im sure that'll change in time though.

To be honest, as I've read about you guys ordering it online I thought you were doing it just because it was cheaper and you were buying in quantity, never dreamed it was because it was unavailable in stores locally. :cursing:

All this makes me want to get back into rendezvousing even more...and say :blah: to the 21st century for awhile.

BTW I'm running low perc. caps also, are they explosives too? :shocked2:

 

[kevthebassman]

Just because there is not a distributor in CO doesn't mean that there isn't a retailer in CO. You should call the closest distributor and ask them to point you in the direction of a retailer. Now, that still may not get you close, there seems to be a real shortage of folks willing to go through the headache of selling the stuff.

 

[arquebus]

Quiet Thunder asked:

BTW I'm running low perc. caps also, are they explosives too?

They are classified the same as centerfire primers & should be available at your local store, however, if you do decide to mail order some there will be a HazMat fee, as with the BP, & they must be shipped seperately to the powder, ergo two HazMat charges.

 

[Poor Private]

Percusion caps can be found at most gun shops heck even retail stores that have sporting goods. Here in Western Michigan I bought a sleeve of 1k for about $45. But you can buy individual tins for 8-9 bucks containing 250 caps. I have found Navy Arms, Red Label(german), and CCI. Navy, and red label are 4 flange, and CCI are 6 flange.
Now for more Info if your doing civil war reenacting they frown on the 6 flange caps at most events. Seems because of the extra flanges they flare/explode off the cap when fired and can get your file mates in the face and neck.

 

[SimonKenton]

Arquebus,

In the Seventies I asked a local explosives dealer, since BP was classed as an explosive, if I could buy some. The guy said he stocks dynamite,TNT and a dozen other hight explosives with no hassles. The problem was that in the Sixties some long-haired maggot-infested anarchists learned that they could make pipe bombs with BP.

So therefore some unelected bureaucrat at the ATF decided to class it as an "explosive" and somehow all the fear mongering of black powder began. He could stock it but the NY City regs would require an underground reinforced bunker at least 5 stories DOWN!!! Similar laws in Westchester and Putnam counties in NY thanks to the pants wetting libtards.

-Ray

 

[paulvallandigham]

Actually, Ray, Black Powder got added to the 1968 Gun Control Act after it came out of committee, so that no hearings were ever held by the Senate to determine whether it should be so classified. This was in response to the bombing of a research Lab that year at the University of Wisconsin, where One person doing research late at night was killed. The early rumors was that it was a truck loaded with " Black Powder". In truth, it was a fertilizer/kerosene " bomb" in the truck, and no black powder was used at all. But, the bill was on the Senate floor, the rumors were believed, and the rest is history.

 

[DCF]

We have similar "challenges" in Britain.
But worse.
Blackpowder is classed as an explosive and you need a licence to buy it and.....a certificate from the Health and Safety executive to transport it.....and an approved box to store it in.
However you can buy smokeless without any bother because it's classed as a propellant! :surrender:

And I thought Blackpowder was an aphrodisiac.....

 

[Tumblernotch]

BP is a low explosive.

 

[Rollover Jack]

Salutations... :yakyak:

When I first got into the sport of muzzleloading around 1974, black powder was at the time classified as an explosive and is still so classified to this day.

"When you see the smoke on the wind, look for me."

 

[Bubba45]

www.powderinc.com is another source to buy online and ship quick .

 

[brubincam]

-----put my order in the mail and was delivered in a week-----POWDER INC.

 

[buttonbuck]

Not to discourage you but check with the laws in your state in the Peoples Republic of Illinois we are only allowed to possess 5 lb at a time. This I beileve is Graff and sons minimum. For me I can buy 5 cans of goex at Darnal's (this info is for Paul) for less than I can have have it shipped to me.

 

[roundball]

Every time I see a post like that I'm reminded of how lucky we are in North Carolina...our state does not apply any over-rides to the Federal regs of being able to have up to 50 pounds BP on hand in a single family dwelling...when I finish the last can in one case and break open the second case, I order a replacement case for the empty one and run it back up to the 50lb limit again.