BP Shelf Life?

[Wink]

A friend of mine gave me a can of Goex FFF that he had in a cupboard in his garage for a few years.The powder appears to be dry and ok. Should I have any concerns about using it?

 

[Frank/Pa]

Nope.

 

[54mountain]

bp will last forever, keep it dry and shoot your heart out :thumbsup:

 

[BrownBear]

A friend just gave me a couple of cans of Goex 3f that he bought in 1969 or 70. They've been stored in a box in his unheated shed all this time, with lots of fluctuations in temp and humidity. Outside of the cans are a little rough, but the powder inside looks and acts brand new.

 

[renovato]

Black powder pretty much lasts forever if kept dry. I used up a couple cans that had been in the hot storage shed since the 70's and they worked just as well as brand new powder that I shoot side by side with it. No worries about age.

 

[wwpete52]

That's the beauty of black powder. It lasts forever.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

Wink I just finshed up mu 1973 can, and am now working on my 1986 can.

Call me in 20 years and Ill tell ya how my 2006 cans work.

 

[oldarmy]

I saw a civil war era can full of B/P.
The can is unopened, so that's where the value is.
I would bet the powder is still usable and would love to shoot it. but the owner will not allow it. :cursing:

 

[paulvallandigham]

It would be of more value to be able to test for grain size, and chemical composition, to determine what ratio of the three components were used at that time, and how it differs from the powder made today.

 

[mazo kid]

I bought several cans of DuPont black in the early 70s, then Goex became available. I still have 3-4 cans of the DuPont left and it still is very much a viable powder! Stored in the bottom floor of an unheated building (along with my partial case of Goex, Swiss, etc.), so doesn't get real hot in the summer.

 

[Dave K]

I have had some pounds of powder lay around for years and some only a few weeks, maybe even days! It just depends how much I can get out and shoot. :wink:

 

[tg]

We had some from an old horn that was used by the family about circa WW1 or earlier and it went boom just like the new stuff.

 

[omarick1948]

In other words...your old can of powder is OK! :thumbsup:

 

[brubincam]

-----if a cave man mixed a batch of black powder and it was kept dry it would still work----- :surrender: :surrender: :surrender:

 

[tg]

"In other words...your old can of powder is OK"

actually it is/was in a horn and has been since the last time a family member used it up on the old homestead in the coastal Mts. it could very well have been made about the turn of the century and no later than 1930ish, I used to sneak some powder out of the horn when I was a kid and set off trail of it, heavy stuff for a fourth grader...

 

[TNHillbilly]

Good timing on this question. I've got a can of FFFg that's 10-12 years old. It works o.k. in my CVA flint pistols. But! I'm finishing-or trying to-2 locks, a flinter and a wheellock. I was able to get spark from both but no ignition of the pans. Does 3F work ok for primer pans? Or is it just weak spark?

 

[MSW]

wow- now you've got me feeling all old and sorry for myself... used the last of a 22 year old can last month & it worked fine... as regards the FFF being used as a primer, it works great for me, so I would look to weak spark / loose flint as a first correction for the 'no flash'

 

[Chilidog]

FFFg works fine as a primer though I use FFFFg as a rule since I have a lot of it to burn up. If I'm out in the boonies and run out of FFFFg I've not had any problems using FFFg.

And like the guys said, BP lasts forever as long as you keep it dry.

 

[Joel/Calgary]

Black powder pretty much lasts forever if kept dry. I used up a couple cans that had been in the hot storage shed since the 70's and they worked just as well as brand new powder that I shoot side by side with it. No worries about age.

You've been somewhat lucky. It's less well known, but besides moisture, there is a temperature consideration in black powder storage. At a temperature of around 170F, the sulfur becomes volatile and begins to move around. So, don't leave your powder can in the rear window of your car in a Texas summer day. That said, if corned powder is stored dry and reasonably cool, and not bounced around enough to wear down the grains, it will keep for centuries with no change.

Bill Knight is an expert on the subject, and he has covered this various places. Below is a post from another list.

Joel

/From:/ William Knight
/Date:/ Tue Jan 20, 2004 7:33 pm
/Subject:/ Black Powder Storage billaknight

In message #32309, TOF asks:
> How does heat degrade the quality of BP?<

Chemical changes that occur in black powder as the result of high
storage temperatures involves a reaction between the sulfur
ingredient and the potassium nitrate ingredient.

Sulfur has a melting point up around the boiling point of water. But
at a lower temperature a small portion of the sulfur will go from a
solid state to a gaseous state without going through the liquid state.

Anytime I am asked to look closely at specific brands or lots of BP I
run a moisture check. This is done in the wife's kitchen oven.
Normally I will run the samples to a constant weight to look at
weight loss. I keep the maximum oven temperature below 170 F. Once I
exceed 170F I begin to smell elemental sulfur. That is the point at
which a small portion of the sulfur has gone from a solid state to a
gaseous state.

Below 170 F, and in a solid state, the elemental sulfur is relatively
inert and unreactive. But in a gaseous state the sulfur vapors are
highly reactive with the potassium nitrate. The end products of the
chemical reactions involved are potassium sulfate and free lower
oxides of nitrogen.

Since the heat induced chemical reactions take away elemental sulfur
there is a slowing of the burn rate of the powder. Loses of even
small amounts of sulfur in the powder will depress burn rates. With
the loss of potassium nitrate comes a "weakening" of the powder
through a loss of oxygen that would otherwise be available for
oxidation of the carbon (charcoal) during powder combustion.

Normally during powder storage the caustic minerals found in the
charcoal tend to buffer any sulfur induced chemical reactions in the
powder. When the caustic mineral matter from the charcoal is consumed
the powder may then go rather acidic in a hurry and as this occurs
the rate of chemical change in the powder is speeded up. It becomes
what amounts to a self-acellerating decomposition reaction.

Technical sources give 120 to 125 F as the maximum storage
temperature for smokeless powders. In some respects it is a good rule
of thumb for black powder storage.

Moisture content in the powder will play a part in this chemical
stability versus storage temperature issue. Generally, the higher the
moisture content of the powder the more sensitive it will be to being
stored at temperatures approaching the point where some
volatilization of the sulfur begins.

The purity of the ingredients used to manufacture will play a part in
the chemical stability of the powder and this included the water used
to wet the powder for the wheel-milling step in the process. Powder
drying and polishing temperatures will effect the chemical stability
in black powder to varying degrees. Powder processed at high
temperatures will begin to show signs of chemical change in the
manufacturing process.

There was a good paper on this topic published in 1944 by the U.S.
Bureau Of Mines. The paper came out of an investigation into a powder
magazine explosion that involved a good quantity of bp. The bp had
been made damp to reduce its dispersal in blasting work. Stored in a
magazine in hot sun. The self-accelerating decomposition reaction
began within the powder. At a rate that caused heat to build up in
the powder. Once the melting point of the sulfur was exceeded the
entire mass of black powder went up almost at the same time. It did
not surface burn as it should. The results mimic the results of true
detonation. Probably the only conditions under which bp can mimic
something akin to true detonation.

Bill K.