British 1806 Baker Rifle

[Cowboy]

Was relaxing last night watching the Military Channel and was introduced to the British model 1806 Baker Rifle on two different programs. The first program, "Battlefield Detectives" did a documentary on the battle of Waterloo. It had a segment about how British skirmishers were placed way in front of the British battlelines to intercept the oncoming French forces. The skirmishers were assigned the job of taking out as many of the French Officers and NCO's as they could before the lines closed. These skirmishers were armed with the model 1806 Baker Rifle's and were plinking them off at 300 yard shots with their .62 PRB's. The other program I saw that featured the British Baker Rifle was " Mail Call" with R.Lee Ermey. He was doing a segment on the War of 1812. He did a feature about British Sharpshooters using the Baker rifle's and American Sharpshooters using the good old Kentucky Rifle. It aroused my curiosity about the British model 1806 Baker Rifle. So I did a little extra research on it and came to the conclusion that I would like this to be my first flintlock rifle. I like the short barrel length of 30", and the hooked breech with three wedge keys so I can remove the barrel for a good cleaning without worrying about the stock. It shoots a hefty .62 PRB. My problem is, that I don't know who stocks a reproduction. I checked Pedersoli it didn't find one on their webpage. I looked on TOW archives and saw several that were sold that were custom builds with parts from the Rifle Shop. I will look around some more. Never even heard of the rifle until seeing it on two different shows last night. Now I want one! Respectfully, cowboys1062 :hmm:

 

[Artificer]

As far as I know, there is not a good reproduction available without resorting to an expensive custom build.

If you google for reproductions, there is a lot out there on the following gun that is disdainful of the gun both because of the smoothbore barrel and general lack of quality. http://www.militaryheritage.com/baker.htm

In the mid 1980's during a trip to Springfield Sporters Inc. in Pennsylvania, they had a couple hundred Bakers - BUT turned out to be "sort of copies" made in Nepal or the Khyber Pass and pretty bad as far as quality. I mention this because they have been confused with originals by too many folks since then.

A good place to learn more about Baker Rifles and kits is on the British Militaria Forums.

Gus

 

[pargent]

By far the best shooters are originals in very good condition , they will out shoot the repros every day , but expect to pay some very serious money , there have been quite a few of us from all over the world that have been asking P edersoli to make a Baker and an English pistol but it falls on deaf ears .

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Well the Rifle Shoppe parts will make the best possible Baker copy.

I have seen Bakers, or properly [The British] Pattern 1800 Infantry Rifle, fashioned from Loyalist Arms India Baker by swapping out the smooth barrel for a 20 Bore Colerain Rifled Baker Barrel.

It's more than just a drop-in project, but the lone example that I saw functioned and shot well. The fellow who owned it was a Sharpe's Rifles fanatic, both books and the TV series, and wanted a functioning "Baker", and wanted it fast. Besides.... the rifles used in the TV series were mostly the India smoothbore copies (they only need to go "bang" and make smoke on TV), and since that was what he expected his Baker to look like, he was happy.

LD

 

[Cowboy]

Looks like this is going to be a fantasy Gun that is way out of my league Do not have the money for a custom build. I guess I better fall in love with another type of flintlock that is within my price range. Boy is that a pretty looking rifle though! My dream Gun. A British model 1806 Baker Rifle. Respectfully, cowboys1062

 

[RonRC]

Now, you have me curious.
I missed those shows and want to see the "Baker" rifle. Internet, here I come!

Thanks,
Ron

 

[54mountain]

Just a thought but the pedrosoli Yeager rifle is also a short full stock along the same lines as the Baker you might check it out as soon Well?

 

[edlee]

Gentlemen,, I am truly a novice to this art and enjoy, immensely, reading all I can about it, Much thanks. As to obtaining a copy of this rifle, I have found something that might interest you. It is supposed to be a very accurate representation,, with the exception that the barrel is neither rifled, nor drilled for a touch hole. The barrel is said to be of good quality,, but this company avoids much regulation by not finishing it, so that it is not, technically, a firearm.
http://www.militaryheritage.com/comments.htm

You may have to copy/paste

 

[Artificer]

By far the best shooters are originals in very good condition , they will out shoot the repros every day , but expect to pay some very serious money , there have been quite a few of us from all over the world that have been asking P edersoli to make a Baker and an English pistol but it falls on deaf ears .

One of the TV shows the OP mentioned may or probably was one that had a British Man shooting an original Baker, offhand, at a man sized target out to I think 300 yards. He did some impressive shooting with it!!

I doubt I will ever get over the fact that after the AWI; the British actually did a better job of "lessons learned" on using rifles and developed a much better Military Rifle than our M1803, M1814 or M1817 rifles.

Gus

 

[Gene L]

The "Sharps" books written by Bernard Cornwell feature the Baker rifle in the Napoleonic Wars.

I can't see why a well-made reproduction would not shoot as well as an original. Problem is, there aren't any reproductions that are also well made.

Maybe 10 years back, IIRC, Cabela's had one, don't know how well made it was. It apparently didn't catch on.

I read an account of one in action, supposedly true, that a rifleman picked off two French officers at 600 yards with one, in sequence. So it wasn't a pure fluke.

 

[nkbj]

The books are mostly followed well by the shows.
Lots of fun!

For a .62 rifle, a TC Hawken or Renegade with a drop-in is nice. Yeah, it's sure not a Baker but it works.

 

[Cowboy]

Yes! The show called " Battlefield Detectives " had, the Battle of Waterloo as a feature program. The British model 1806 Baker Rifle used on the program was an original being shot off hand by a british gentleman. He shot three man size( man shape) targets out to three different distances. 100 yards, 200 yards, 300 yards. He was using a .62 PRB. At 100 yards off hand, he scored a head shot. At 200 yards, another headshot! At 300 yards he hit the target center mass. in the upper chest area. All three shots were fired unsupported off hand in the standing position. The whole show was not about the Baker Rifle but was about the tactics Duke Wellington used to defeat Napoleon and the French at the battle of Waterloo. They had segments on Artillery, Infantry, Horse Calvary , physical lay of the land. They had a small segment on the British model 1806 Baker Rifle, and how the British Skirmishers were deployed and how deadly they were picking off French Officers and NCO,s way before the French were in shooting range using their smoothbore muskets. Also showed the demonstration of the original rifle being used by the gentleman marksman showing its effects and accuracy. Respectfully, cowboys1062.

 

[tenngun]

While not being a baker, track of the wolf sells kits for all there smooth bore flintlocks with .54 or .58 rifled barrels. You could have a NWG , Tulle or colonial fowling gun with a big rifle bore.

 

[Artificer]

Yes, indeed that is the show I was referring to.

One of the huge advantages of the Baker was the flip up rear sight for two different ranges. No U.S. Rifle or Rifle Musket had that as standard issue for another half century. What that rear sight allowed, and demonstrated by the British Shooter so well, was that solid hits could be made up to 300 yards without having to resort to extravagant guestimates and hold overs.

In a way, that rear sight was also the ancestor of the modern Battlefield Sight Zero of 300 yards that came into use with the M1 and continues today with the M16A2. I mention this only because the Baker allowed that kind of shooting almost a century and a half before it came into regular military usage.

Gus

 

[TFoley]

P...roblem is, there aren't any reproductions that are also well made.

There is, in fact, a replication of all three variants of the Baker rifle made right here in England by Peter Dyson.

All you need is -

a. Patience - he takes around three years to make it.

b. Money - it costs around $5K or more - the price I recall is at least ten years old. If you care to look at Youtube tac's guns, you can see my pal Steve shooting his Dyson Baker rifle, and although you don't see it in this particular clip, he keeps eight out of ten shots inside the seven ring on a standard 25yd pistol target - at 50.

tac

 

[Rick Boylan]

Those are some nice looking rifles and the prices are pretty good too. Just a word of caution though, make sure they are not imports from India. If you look around this forum you will see that there is a pretty bad opinion of India made rifles.

I do like the looks of their Baker rifle and the cost is only $499.

 

[Tom Compton]

Tempting for sure.

 

[Cowboy]

Wonder how much it would cost to have a vint hole drilled into the barrel and also have it rifled? This rifle says it is a .62 now as a smooth bore. Would the bore walls be thick enough to have it rifled or would I have to have a liner put in it and what would probably be the biggest caliber I could have as a liner that would fit in the barrel? I also wonder who could do the work and an approximate cost to have everything done to make the rifle in shootable condition. The thing that has me worried is the quality of the reproduction rifle, having the barrel rifled or lined, what caliber, Who could do the work to make it shootable? Seems to be alot of work to get the type of rifle I want and I really dont know who is the maker of this reproduction? Do not want any India made stuff! I have read to many bad things about their stuff. Would appreciate any answers or comments about my concerns would be greatly appreciated. Also can somebody give me an education on barrel liners and how good they are and how long they would last and has anyone ever had problems with them in the past? Lots of questions but I need educated. Respectfully, cowboys1062. :idunno:

 

[galamb]

I would be leery of using one of the guns from Military Heritage "as is", even with the vent drilled , for anything other than re-enacting where you are shooting blank loads.

The barrel on the Baker Rifle in particular is BS970 - a "barrel steel" (BS) commonly used on India made guns "destined for reenactors" - not guys intent on stuffing a patched ball down the tube.

Colerain used to (maybe still does) offer a replacement barrel for these - in fact, this supplier used to offer the Colerain barrel as an option (don't see that anymore) which would turn this into a "shooter".

The question about the viability of using BS970 was posed to a number of black powder barrel makers who frequent another forum and none of them would support/suggest it's use in a "functioning" black powder rifle/gun.

And for those that already see 12L14 as "unsuitable", then if the barrel makers that DO use it say NO to BS970 it must really leave something to be desired.

And if you read the website they state quite clearly that if you do make the gun "functional" they clearly state:

"We are not legally responsible for any alteration from its present non-firing state."

So they are selling a "decoration" that "could" be made functional if you put a "real barrel" on it - or you could have a touch hole drilled and touch off some "powder only" if you are playing "the red team" on the weekend.

 

[Artificer]

Outside the reproduction by Peter Dyson mentioned above, ALL the reproductions on the market are India made guns.

LD mentioned above about replacing the barrel with one from Colerain, but I don't think it comes with the sword bayonet stud: http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/652/4/COLE-62-BAKER

I would also expect some to a good deal of work on the lock to get it working well.

Gus