British Enfield Barrels

[rickystl]

You guys with M1853 Enfield knowledge/libraries might be able to help?
Besides the .577 rifled barrel, did the British ever produce the same/similar barrel in smooth bore? I seem to remember reading somewhere that the British reamed out used rifled barrels that were supplied to the Natives of the Indian continent during the occupation. But I can't verify this.
I have a M1853 Enfield being shipped to me from Denmark as I write this. It has the usual barrel markings at the breech, but is smoothbore. Don't know the caliber yet till I receive it.
Any help appreciated. Thanks, Rick.

 

[poordevil]

I can't verify it ether, but my take on it is that any smoothbore , former rifled BBL was use for foraging. The British wanted the Natives to be effective fighters, after all they would have their backs at some point and would need effective firepower. I do believe , though, that the Natives got the old model as new guns came out, such as using the Snider while the new Martini went to the Regulars.

 

[Tumblernotch]

If it is a Pattern 1853, it should be rifled and .577 cal. unless it was bored out for issue to Indian colonial troops. I have seen reproduction Enfields with smooth bores sold to reenactors in the past as well.

The last smoothbore Enfield was the Pattern 1842 with a .753 bore. Some of these were later rifled. The first of the British Minie Rifles was the Pattern 1851 with a .702 bore.

A picture of the gun when you get it, along with a bore measurement will help greatly in figuring out what may have been done. Some of our English friends on here can help with identification and any causes for the smooth bore besides what we have stated.

 

[Britsmoothy]

I can not help with the historic side of things but you have me wondering now. Parker Hale offered their true copies with smoothbore options!

I have only one now but have had two in smoothbore. 1858 and 1861.

B.

 

[Coot]

My understanding is that a number of pattern 1853 Enfields were bored out for issue to Indian troops as smoothbores. Apparently, this left the barrels a bit thin to take the rigors of use with a bayonet so the pattern 1859 was introduced as a purpose built smoothbore. A thicker barrel than the p1853 with a .656 bore. Other than the slightly thicker barrel the p1859 has a fixed rear sight graduated to 100 yards. The pattern 1859s show up on the collector market from time to time.

 

[Tumblernotch]

Back years ago when I was reenacting, a few smoothbore '53s started turning up at events. Some may have been P-Hs, but I think most were Indian made repros (lower quality) of about .62 cal. You could get one cheap. We were told that many of these were sold to British reenactors because they weren't allowed to have rifled muskets. I don't know how true this story was, but that was what we were told. Anyhow, I have read that the British Army issued smoothbores to colonials in India, but I don't know if they would've issued new '53s made that way or muskets of the 1838 or 1842 Patterns. Maybe tac or David Minshall could help with this. I have some info on the various musket patterns but no history pertaining to issues to colonial troops.

 

[ken.clements]

1842 Musket smoothbore
1842 Musket ”žSea service rifled Musket“.731 cal.
1851 regulation Minie Musket, 39 in barrel, 10lb 8and ¾ oz. with bayonet, .702 Bore, 4 lands and grooves 1 in 78 inches
1853 Enfield Pattern Rifle, .577 cal, 9 lb 3 oz, 39 In Barrel, 3 grooves
The 1853 Type rifled Musket was issued to the Natives in India as a smoothbore (Sepoy Mutiny) named as Pattern 1858 and Pattern 1859

Indian Service Enfields
Pattern 1858 Bore 1 = .656 in. thin Barrel,
Pattern 1859 Bore 2 = .656 in. thick Barrel

Pattern 1853 Obsolete on 18 Sept. 1866 Intro Snider
1874 intro Martini Henry

hope it helps, no garanty's

 

[rickystl]

Thank you ALL for your - especially quick replies!! Much appreciated. Super helpful.
I forgot to mention that the gun is original and complete. But...with a surprise, which I'll save when I re-post with photos. :grin: I should receive it by the end of this week. I'll clean it up and take good photos. Thanks again, Rick.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Back years ago when I was reenacting, a few smoothbore '53s started turning up at events. Some may have been P-Hs, but I think most were Indian made repros (lower quality) of about .62 cal. You could get one cheap. We were told that many of these were sold to British reenactors because they weren't allowed to have rifled muskets. I don't know how true this story was, but that was what we were told. Anyhow, I have read that the British Army issued smoothbores to colonials in India, but I don't know if they would've issued new '53s made that way or muskets of the 1838 or 1842 Patterns. Maybe tac or David Minshall could help with this. I have some info on the various musket patterns but no history pertaining to issues to colonial troops.

In Britain it is easier to obtain a "shotgun licence" than a "firearm licence" the latter needed for rifles . This makes it plausable for a company to offer smoothbores over here :hatsoff:

Make be some interesting links here;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pattern_1853_Enfield

Brits.

 

[ken.clements]

[/quote]
In Britain it is easier to obtain a "shotgun licence" than a "firearm licence" the latter needed for rifles . This makes it plausable for a company to offer smoothbores over here :hatsoff:

Make be some interesting links here;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pattern_1853_Enfield

Brits.
[/quote]

Heard about that...my condolences Not much fun...tried friendly and legally to get a Baker rifle sent to Germany from the UK.....now I'm probably on every alert list in Europe :td:

 

[Tumblernotch]

Back years ago when I was reenacting, a few smoothbore '53s started turning up at events. Some may have been P-Hs, but I think most were Indian made repros (lower quality) of about .62 cal. You could get one cheap. We were told that many of these were sold to British reenactors because they weren't allowed to have rifled muskets. I don't know how true this story was, but that was what we were told. Anyhow, I have read that the British Army issued smoothbores to colonials in India, but I don't know if they would've issued new '53s made that way or muskets of the 1838 or 1842 Patterns. Maybe tac or David Minshall could help with this. I have some info on the various musket patterns but no history pertaining to issues to colonial troops.

In Britain it is easier to obtain a "shotgun licence" than a "firearm licence" the latter needed for rifles . This makes it plausable for a company to offer smoothbores over here :hatsoff:

Make be some interesting links here;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pattern_1853_Enfield

Brits.

That's pretty much what we heard. A smoothbore would be good enough for reenacting since we didn't need rifling for blanks, but some of us hunt and shoot targets with them.

I wasn't aware that P-H made them in smoothbore. The ones I saw were pretty ragged, I was told they were Indian made. Certainly not P-H quality like the early Whiworth I have.

 

[pargent]

ParkerField used surplus 1853 s & parts to make late trade guns.

 

[TFoley]

I can not help with the historic side of things but you have me wondering now. Parker Hale offered their true copies with smoothbore options!

I have only one now but have had two in smoothbore. 1858 and 1861.

B.

This is correct, as Mr Minshall of the MLAGB will no doubt verify.

Of the eight Musketoons currently on sale at my local dealer, three are factory-made smooth-bore 20g shotguns.

tac

 

[Britsmoothy]

I can not help with the historic side of things but you have me wondering now. Parker Hale offered their true copies with smoothbore options!

I have only one now but have had two in smoothbore. 1858 and 1861.

B.

This is correct, as Mr Minshall of the MLAGB will no doubt verify.

Of the eight Musketoons currently on sale at my local dealer, three are factory-made smooth-bore 20g shotguns.

tac

My PH models were a tight .58, not 20g all be it they are entered on my licence as 20g :shake:

B.

 

[Britsmoothy]

In Britain it is easier to obtain a "shotgun licence" than a "firearm licence" the latter needed for rifles . This makes it plausable for a company to offer smoothbores over here :hatsoff:

Make be some interesting links here;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pattern_1853_Enfield

Brits.
[/quote]

Heard about that...my condolences Not much fun...tried friendly and legally to get a Baker rifle sent to Germany from the UK.....now I'm probably on every alert list in Europe :td:
[/quote]

No, you should be fine on that one friend, don't worry :hatsoff:

B.