I've got a jap. brown bess. When I squeeze the trigger to let the hammer back down out of full cock it stops at half cock. I have to give it a good push to ease it all the way down. There is no problem when I shoot it, just if I try to ease it ahead. I just started shooting so I don't know to much about this stuff. Is this common? Is this going to lead to problems? Is there a fix??? Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.
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Brown bess lock problem?
- Thread starter DJ33
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Try loosening the lock bolts and see if that helps. It may be binding on something if they are too tight.
Va.Manuf.06
58 Cal.
You probably already know this, but remember that when you are easing the hammer down you have to keep preasure on the trigger until the hammer travels past the half cock notch position on the tumbler. And welcome to the world of BP shooting.
Mike Brooks
Cannon
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Let me add, that's because there is no fly in a military lock that would normally block the half cock notch. You have to hold the sear nose up high enough to travel over the notch with out falling in.Va.Manuf.06 said:
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PATrapper said:
Sounds to me like this lock does have a fly and it's too long. If the hammer hangs up at the half cock but can be pushed past it, it sounds like the scear is hanging up on a long fly. If the scear WAS going into the half cock notch, you shouldn't be able to push it further. Either it has a fly and it's too long (unusual for a military lock) or you have a problem with the half cock notch in that it won't hold properly.
mike alexandre
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I've had this problem on a Indian Bess, turned out to be not enough trigger travel
PATrapper said:
Send it on a trip? :rotf:
Sorry 'bout that, I couldn't help myself. :grin:
Something is binding, either the lock screw is too tight, or the screws securing the bridle are too tight.
Remove the lock and look into the lock mortise. Does there appear to be a shiney place where any internal part is rubbing? If so remove that shiney area with a scraper.
Cock the lock while out of the gun and let the hammer down gently. Does it bind? Do you have to push the hammer down ? If so, loosen the two screws holding the bridle and try again.
The bridle is the part covering the tumbler and the sear. One screw is near the top of the lockplate behind the hammer, the other screw serves at the sear pivot screw.
It's highly likely that the threads on the screws securing the bridle are too long and they have been tightened down too much. Back 'em off a half, or a full turn and try the lock again.
If that is the case, those screws can be chucked in a lathe, or even in a hand drill and if the heads are thick enough, and the threads not overly long, enough material can be removed from the bottom of the head to provide the clearance you need.
Carefully measure the length of the threads, the thickness of the lockplate at the location of the screw holes, and the thickness of the screw head to insure that removing a little material from the screw head will, in fact, solve the problem.
Otherwise, just back 'em off a turn and leave 'em a little loose. The wood in the lock mortise will prevent those screws from backing out.
J.D.
Also check to see if the lock bolt is too long and is going through the lockplate far enough that the hammer is dragging on it. I had this happen on one of mine. If so, just shorten the bolt a couple of threads.
mike alexandre
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Take the sear out of the lock and clamp it tight in a vice with something to protect it from the jaws. You should then be able to gently bend down the lever end of the sear which is moved by the trigger when its in the gun. It may only need a very small amount - .020 or .030 thou so take it slowly. Bending the sear arm down will allow the trigger to contact earlier.
I took the lock off & I think I see the problem. I cocked the hammer all the back & when I let it back down the sear just barely catches the edge of the half cock notch. I pushed on the hammer & it felt just like it did before. I think justmike is right about the trigger travel. if the sear arm was bent down a hair,the trigger would push the sear arm up a little more & that would tilt the nose down just enough to clear the lip of half cock notch where it was hanging up at. I just have to work up the courage to actually bend it. Don't want to break anything.
How can the problem be trigger travel when the trigger is not affecting the the lock while it's out of the stock?
The bridle screws are too tight, back 'em off a turn.
Try the easiest, least labor intensive solution first, then progress to more involved solutions.
You may go to the trouble of bending the sear bar only to find that, not only does that not solve your problem, but instead creates another, even worse, problem.
The bridle screws are too tight, back 'em off a turn.
Try the easiest, least labor intensive solution first, then progress to more involved solutions.
You may go to the trouble of bending the sear bar only to find that, not only does that not solve your problem, but instead creates another, even worse, problem.
I guess I failed to mention I tried backing the screws off. it didn't seem to help. I understand what you mean about not having the use of the trigger with the lock out. it's one of those things you have to see. it's hard for me to explain. it's like there's a small burr or lip that the sear hits at the half cock notch right at the edge of it. I guess I don't know for sure thats what it is hanging up on. but when it was hung up at that point and I pushed the hammer ahead the sear would push past the lip of that notch and the hammer would drop down. just the way things feel is what makes me think this. I'm going to have my dad look at it to see what he thinks before I do anything. THank you.
The trigger has nothing to do with your problem.
Something is obviously binding those parts.
The sear bar should move freely, lifting high enough to allow the nose of the sear to clear the half cock notch. If the sear does not have that freedom of movement, it is binding on something.
There may be a burr or galling on the bridle or the lockplate that needs to be removed.
Another possibility could be the sear spring restricting the movement of the sear, but that doesn't answer the question of the binding of the tumbler after you push the hammer past the the point that the sear would contact the half cock notch.
The tumbler should move freely through the entire range of motion of the hammer. The fact that you have to push the hammer to the down position, past the point at which the sear clears the half cock notch, suggest that the bridle is binding on those parts.
Since the obvious culprit is the bridle, with the cure being loosening the screws. Back the screws off a little more and try again.
Look at the clearance betwen the hammer and the lock plate. Does the hammer move freely without binding on the plate? That could impede the motion of the hammer, but based on what you describe, I doubt that is the problem.
Just had a thought, have you oiled the lock?
Try a little hight quality oil. Rem oil, BreakFree, or other good quality gun oil may solve the problem.
Some folks like to lube lock internals with grease that can harden over time. Some others like to use the yellow miracle lubes on the lock. That stuff is bad news. The yellow "miracle lubes" are not a good lubricant. IF your lock was lubed with some sort of grease, clean it out and lube with a good quality oil.
Something is obviously binding those parts.
The sear bar should move freely, lifting high enough to allow the nose of the sear to clear the half cock notch. If the sear does not have that freedom of movement, it is binding on something.
There may be a burr or galling on the bridle or the lockplate that needs to be removed.
Another possibility could be the sear spring restricting the movement of the sear, but that doesn't answer the question of the binding of the tumbler after you push the hammer past the the point that the sear would contact the half cock notch.
The tumbler should move freely through the entire range of motion of the hammer. The fact that you have to push the hammer to the down position, past the point at which the sear clears the half cock notch, suggest that the bridle is binding on those parts.
Since the obvious culprit is the bridle, with the cure being loosening the screws. Back the screws off a little more and try again.
Look at the clearance betwen the hammer and the lock plate. Does the hammer move freely without binding on the plate? That could impede the motion of the hammer, but based on what you describe, I doubt that is the problem.
Just had a thought, have you oiled the lock?
Try a little hight quality oil. Rem oil, BreakFree, or other good quality gun oil may solve the problem.
Some folks like to lube lock internals with grease that can harden over time. Some others like to use the yellow miracle lubes on the lock. That stuff is bad news. The yellow "miracle lubes" are not a good lubricant. IF your lock was lubed with some sort of grease, clean it out and lube with a good quality oil.
Joel/Calgary
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PATrapper, may I ask for clarification:
Does the cock drop freely to rest once the tumbler is clear of the sear?
When you tested the lock while dismounted, is it that the sear would not travel far enough to clear the lip of the half-cock notch, or is that you you only pushed the sear far enough to just clear the full-cock notch but the sear can easily travel far enough to clear the hang-up when pressed further?
Is the lip of the half-cock notch is thick enough that you could safely thin it, or at least bevel the outer edge, enough to allow it to not catch on the sear nose on the way down with the sear just clearing the full-cock notch?
Joel
Does the cock drop freely to rest once the tumbler is clear of the sear?
When you tested the lock while dismounted, is it that the sear would not travel far enough to clear the lip of the half-cock notch, or is that you you only pushed the sear far enough to just clear the full-cock notch but the sear can easily travel far enough to clear the hang-up when pressed further?
Is the lip of the half-cock notch is thick enough that you could safely thin it, or at least bevel the outer edge, enough to allow it to not catch on the sear nose on the way down with the sear just clearing the full-cock notch?
Joel
everything moves freely until the sear hits the half cock lip and itmoves freely after it clears that edge. you must know what i'm talking about because I thought of the same thing about taking that lip down. It's just a thousandsth. I won't do it till I take it to someone that can give me a staight answer.
Does the sear bar lift far enough to create enough clearance for the nose of the sear miss the half cock notch in the tumbler?
Use your thumb to raise the sear bar as high as it will go. Does the nose still make contact with the tumbler?
If so, the sear spring may be riding up in the sear arm to make contact with the boss at the back of the screw hole.
Loosen the sear spring screw just enough to allow the sear spring to rotate up and away from the sear bar. You will need to pry the spring out of the notch that retains the spring.
Try the sear again. Does the sear bar raise up enough to provide the necessary clearance to miss the half cock notch on the tumbler?
To reassemble the spring, with the screw turned a coupla threads into the lockplate, just push the spring back down until the bar engages the notch in the lockplate. Then tighten the retaining screw.
If the sear moves far enough for the nose to clear the tumbler with the sear spring dismounted, remove the spring and file a little off of the end that contacts the sear.
File a few strokes and reassemble to try and see if the sear rotates farther and STILL has contact with the end of the spring.
Remove the burr that will be created by filing, before the spring is reassembled onto the lock.
This may take several tries of removing the spring, filing, reassembling and trying.
Stop filing as soon as the sear nose clears the half cock notch.
Be careful here. You just want to remove just enough material from the end of the spring to allow the sear to rotate a little farther than it does now.
IF, by chance, you do remove too much material, use a flat screwdriver wrapped with a coupla wraps of masking tape, in the inside of the bend to pry the spring open a little. Be careful here too. Bend the spring too much and the trigger pull will become heavier. Not enough and the sear won't properly engage the full cock notch.
Use your thumb to raise the sear bar as high as it will go. Does the nose still make contact with the tumbler?
If so, the sear spring may be riding up in the sear arm to make contact with the boss at the back of the screw hole.
Loosen the sear spring screw just enough to allow the sear spring to rotate up and away from the sear bar. You will need to pry the spring out of the notch that retains the spring.
Try the sear again. Does the sear bar raise up enough to provide the necessary clearance to miss the half cock notch on the tumbler?
To reassemble the spring, with the screw turned a coupla threads into the lockplate, just push the spring back down until the bar engages the notch in the lockplate. Then tighten the retaining screw.
If the sear moves far enough for the nose to clear the tumbler with the sear spring dismounted, remove the spring and file a little off of the end that contacts the sear.
File a few strokes and reassemble to try and see if the sear rotates farther and STILL has contact with the end of the spring.
Remove the burr that will be created by filing, before the spring is reassembled onto the lock.
This may take several tries of removing the spring, filing, reassembling and trying.
Stop filing as soon as the sear nose clears the half cock notch.
Be careful here. You just want to remove just enough material from the end of the spring to allow the sear to rotate a little farther than it does now.
IF, by chance, you do remove too much material, use a flat screwdriver wrapped with a coupla wraps of masking tape, in the inside of the bend to pry the spring open a little. Be careful here too. Bend the spring too much and the trigger pull will become heavier. Not enough and the sear won't properly engage the full cock notch.
