Bullets in a '60 Army & bolt ?

[Rebel]

Anybody use the Lee conical bullets in their 1860? If so, how do they work? Are they any where near as accurate as a rd ball? Just picked up a '60 on Gunbroker and thinking i might like to try the bullets but would like to know if they are worth buying another mould for? Also, it is missing the bolt that holds the barrel wedge. Anyone know what size threads they are so i can pick one up for it? Any info appreciated.

Oops, guess you need some info for the threads. It is an older CVA revolver and i assume it was made in Italy but i haven't got it yet so not certain.

 

[bingo1952]

The 200 grain conical and 30 grains of 3F is about all you can get in an 1860 Army. I shoot that bullet out of a 1st Model Dragoon with 45 grains of 3F and the power is impressive. Dixie Gun Works will have the screw.

 

[Rebel]

Thanks. I figured if i knew what size the screw was i could probably find one locally at a hardware store or gun shop.

 

[Zonie]

I haven't shot a bullet in my .45's but based on firing some pure lead bullets in my .36's I'll say that they require a LOT more force with the loading lever to seat than a roundball does.

The 1860's "creeping" loading lever is pretty strong but the holes in the bottom of the barrel that it engages to drive it are not heat treated so they can be damaged if too much force is applied to the lever.

I know of several cases where the barrel material around these holes was ruined by their owner using a lot of force to seat bullets.

The thread on that little screw is a M4 X 0.5 fine metric thread on my Western Arms 1860.
The length of the threads is .133 (about 1/8 inch) and it is important that it must not be much longer.
If it is longer, it will hit the cylinder spindle pin (the thing the cylinder rotates on) and keep the barrel from coming off.

The head diameter is .275 and it is .070 tall.
It is not a round head screw but is flatter.
I doubt that you will find a similar screw at your local stores.

Dixie Gunworks lists this "Barrel Wedge screw" as part number SP1810 and their catalog indicates that the same screw is used to hold the trigger spring in place.

IMO, in order to have a screw that looks like it belongs there rather than a poorly shaped replacement you probably should consider paying Dixie their rather high price for the right part.

 

[Rebel]

Thanks Zonie. Guess i better get in touch with Dixie then after all.

 

[Don]

I have shot the Lee conicals out of my Remington with 25 grains of pyro p. Recoil was noticable and velocity was 744 fps with 246 ft/lbs pressure. I have a conversion cylinder for my 1860 and have shot cowboy loads with a 200 grain bullet. Accuracy was ok but not as good as when I shoot balls out of it. The Lee bullets out of my Remington were pretty accurate as I recall maybe a little bigger group than with shooting round ball. I mic'd the Lee bullets and they are .440 at the base and then .450 closer to the nose so I don't think you'll have too much trouble seating them. The biggest problem might be getting them to fit under the rammer. I loaded them in My Remington with the cylinder off the gun. Give it a try and tell us how it worked out.

Don

 

[Rebel]

Well i don't have a mould for them so i can't try them. Wanted to know if it was worth investing in a mould but doesn't sound like it is. Ohh well, rd balls are fun too.

 

[R.M.]

I've tried them, and personally, I don't think they're worth buying the mold for. I'm much happier using RB, but that's just me. YMMV

 

[Rebel]

Thanks. That is kinda what i am thinking too.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

I tried some conicals, but went back to regular round balls! Use a friend's 1860 Army at 50 yards, strong-hand only, 25 grains of 3Fg Goex and a wonder-wad underneath a .454 ball...shot a 82x100 and used that target for my NRA Pistol Qualification! Conicals were all over the place at that range!

Have Fun with the 6-Gun!

Dave

 

[Rebel]

Thanks Dave. That is what i wanted to hear. Now i don't need to buy a mould. :haha:

 

[Robert an saa fan]

Suggest you also check VTI for the wedge screw:
http://www.vtigunparts.com/store/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=84&cat=ASM+1860+Army+

Your CVA 1860 is most likely made by Armi San Marco and marked under the barrel "ASM".

VTI sells the wedge screw for $3 + S&H.

Also, you might try The Gun Works up the road a piece in Springfield if you have a trip that way. They probably have the correct screw.

 

[Rebel]

Well if it is an ASM i won't need the screw as i won't be keeping it. I have had 5 or 6 of their revolvers and never had any luck with any of them. But thanks for the info.

 

[Rebel]

Well. You were right Robert, it is an ASM. And even though it appears to be a well made one it is for sale in the classifieds. I said i would never own another ASM and didn't know this was one when i bid on it. So it is on the block.

 

[Stophel]

Not much of a salesman, are ya? :haha:

 

[Rebel]

Nope, just honest. :haha:

 

[nkbj]

The biggest problem with getting bullets to shoot in any revolver is tailoring the bullet to the revolver. If that isn't done and accuracy turns up good then it's fortunate happenstance despite the odds. Round ball usually betters conicals because the balls naturally suffer less misalignment and eccentricity on their way out than a poorly fitted bullet.
For best results the conical needs to be cast oversize and then the back half or more sized to just slip down the chamber. The length of sizing is generally determined by how much the conical needs to go down in order to pass through the cut-out in the frame and go under the loading ram. Some designs though are engineered so there's just no room to even get a conical started.
Most 44's are real easy to make work. 36's are harder to find off the shelf tooling for but usually out shoot 44's. 31's are easy too (easy to see why 32 revolvers were once all the rage with target shooters).

 

[Rebel]

Decided to take it out today and shoot it and at least try it out. Thing actually shoots pretty good. About 7" high but i was expecting that since they all shoot high. Seems to be a well made gun. Only problem i found was when you put it on half cock to turn the cylinder. You can hear the click and see the trigger move forward a little. But it doesn't click all the way into the half cock notch unless you push forward on the trigger. And it will drop the hammer if you pull the trigger. I completely disassembled it and stoned the hammer and trigger as well as the bolt and bolt cut in the frame but it still does it. The Bolt/trigger spring is ok. Any ideas as to the problem?

 

[Stophel]

Sounds like something is binding. Take out all the springs, and work it by hand and you might be able to see better what is going on.