Burst musket barrel question

[Grizzled Roberts]

Gentlemen, I am not going to mention names and places just the incedent.

At a rev war re enactment a fairly new made in India musket ( bess ) blew up while shooting blanks. 110 grains of powder in the barrel. Nothing else.

The breach plug blew out and the barrel split from
the touch hole up the the next ferrel. The shooter was injured and the two men to his right
had damage to their left ears. ( they will recover ) It was a top line unit and they inventoried his cartridge box. All paper cartridges were 110 grains and only the shots fired were missing.
They all say there was nothing in the barrel but the powder.
My question to the board...
1. has anybody ever heard of this happening?
2. would it be possible to blow up a barrel with just the powder in it?

This has the boys talking down here!

:hmm:

 

[Rebel]

I don't see how Just Powder could build up enough pressure to blow a barrel if it was Black powder and no barrel obstruction.

 

[jdstrang]

Do you have a maker's name? Does anyone know if the barrel bore proof marks? (Not, obviously, that proofmarks in this instance would mean jack.) Was it the first shot he fired on that day? Could he have possibly gotten a barrel obstruction (mud, etc.) between loading and firing? And does he have a good product liability lawyer??

 

[tg]

The picture shows a seam like failure and a blown plug that may have been welded, lots of speculation on this one it does not look like a typical barrel burst in other pics I have seen even so a blank with no obstruction would not likely cause such damage in a barrel that has been shot several times unless there was a tremendous flaw in much of the barrel, this one will rattle around the campfires for quite a while and probably help to polarize the pro/con camps on these Indian made guns.

 

[Rebel]

What Picture? Is there another post about this?

 

[B. Miller]

Middlesex Village is one of several vendors that sells these Indian imported firearms. In their F.A.Q.s they tell you that that there are no requirements for proofing for import into the U.S. and that the barrels have not been proofed. That being said he also says that they are safe to shoot.
Bruce

 

[paulvallandigham]

If there was a bore obstruction, it will be evident from a slight stretching at the point where they barrel gave out, and the kind of obstruction will be indicated by the shape of that buldge or stretching. If it was seamed tube that gave out, then the wrong kind of pipe was used. Too bad our Product Liability laws do not apply to foreign manufacturers.

This is why its always important to take barrels out of stocks, and do a thorough inspection before firing anyting. I suspect the shooter put the paper wrap down the barrel to give it some compression, and is not admitting it. With paper, you may or may not be able to see clear evidence of what caused the high pressure before the rupture occurred.

Years ago- about 50- my father decided to buy his first Flintlock pistol from Klein's Sporting Goods. They were selling a .62 cal smoothbore flintlock horse pistol, marked " Tower" but made either in Italy or Japan. The price was $28.00. He ended up sending the frizzen to Dixie GWs to be hardened, and he ordered a Dixie Scissor style RB mold for the gun. Smoothbore, no sights. We checked the barrel inside and out, to make sure it was sound. The next shipment of flintlock pistols that Klein's got in were either made somewhere else, or by someone else, because you could see a seam at the bottom of the barrel that was barely welded shut. We warned the clerks working in our local store, and the tags were marked, For decoration only, Do NOT attempt to fire! After that lot was sold, the store stopped importing the guns. They reappeared again some years later and I saw them advertised in someone's catalogue. But it was the cheap version which was safe only as a wallhanger.

Since no domestic manufacture is making the replica Brown Bess guns, and the Italians want a mortgage on your first born child to afford to buy their copies, I do think the re-inactors are stuck in a serious quandry.

 

[biliff]

If the breechplug blew out, then there had to be something on the other side of the powder charge with more resistance to movement than the breechplug. Anybody notice what happened to the ramrod??

 

[mudd turtle]

I have been a reenactor for fifteen years and as such it is our custom to inspect arms every morning to make sure there is no loaded or obstructed gun in camp . Also when we are on line we are told not to put anything but powder in the barrel. We are often asked to leave ram rods in camp. If the ram rod was left on the gun no one was to pull it out during the fight. That being said and not being there to have witnessed the events it would be hard in my opinion to make a sound judgement as to what happened. I am not a gun smith but it would seem reasonable to me that the barrel was obstructed or there was a failure of the tube-(barrel).As it has been reported the gun was an Indian import. In my unit we have been told not to buy this musket because it is cheaply made and there are often no proff marks which indicate that the musket has been inspected and a proff load tested before it goes out to sell. I bought one of the Italian made bess and have had no problems with it at all. If you buy the best you will not have problems of this sort unless you stick the muzzle in the dirt or mud. Mudd Turtle.

 

[mudd turtle]

What picture? Could you post it if it is available Mudd Turtle

 

I don't see how Just Powder could build up enough pressure to blow a barrel if it was Black powder and no barrel obstruction.

I don't see a picture either. Where's da picture??

 

[jdstrang]

I hate mysteries. Links found here:[url] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Revlist/message/101447[/url]
to what purports to be the subject of this post. Apparently happened at Rock Ford, near Lancaster, Pa., but damn little coverage of the event and none of the injury.

 

[mudd turtle]

After I looked at the pictures of the musket it does look as if the barrel split along the seam line. The ram rod is still in it's proper place But the musket is distroyed. Everyone involved are lucky that someone didn't get hurt any more than they did. Mudd Turtle.

 

[Mike Brooks]

Yes, the barrel failed, the breech plug is still intact and not the problem. I'm guessing the "Seam" in the "seamless" tubing gave way. :nono:

 

[jdstrang]

An account of the incident here: [url] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Revlist/message/101012[/url]

If you search that board under the term "split barrel" you find most of the details. By these accounts it was seam failure, no fault of the hapless musketeer...

 

[Roy]

scary stuff... cheap equipment. Very lucky thats all that happened.

 

Thanks PaPaBear, that fella is lucky to just have two broken fingers.

 

[Parzifal]

Jeesus....
Does any one know who made the musket??
Each of the big 3 ..Loyalist,middlesex and mil heritage have their own factories I am told..

This REALLY sucks, And has me saying thank god I still have my head.

I have shot my loyalist musket with double ball loads, shot and all that with great success..Also I have a blunder bess I have shot aswell..This whole thing makes me VERY unhappy..

The kit bess I built from a in the white indian piece is the nicest musket I have ever seen, some thing I am VERY proud of, now I am just ****** off.

I think we need to know where this gonne came from!

Rob.

And until then I am sticking to the piedersoli I have.

I am calling on EVERY owner and shooter of Indian barelled muskets to come together and find out where this musket came from...Theres ALOT of us out there that hunt with these and really go to town with them.

 

[Parzifal]

Ok Here at the night shift I have read all the posts on this issue and it seems that this is the 1st time this has happened with one of these..

And theres also something about a Explosion of a Piedersoli in 1996 at a event at gunston hall.SO LETS KEEP THIS IN PERSPECTIVE..

The gun looks to be one of the 300$$ ones that were sold on gunbroker..The stock Is far lighter, then any of my pieces, and also 1 cartridge...that seems pretty damn EXTREMELY light to explode a barell without anything in it..?Path of least resistance and all that.

I was pretty really upset about this, still am a bit miffed, but at least no one is dead and now its all about sussing out what happened..

Ive put powder down cardboard tubes without problems....this seems odd for some reason..

 

[TDW]

click the link and scroll down through the responses to the fellow who has the link to the "factory". If that "factory" isn't enough to scare the life out of you, the liability of injuring someone else with one of these things should be.
TomW