butt plate in letting

[waksupi]

I use John Biven's method on butt plates. Anneal the part, get a close fit, then use a ball peen hammer to gently bring the edges of the plate down to contact the wood, and then file smooth. Saves a lot of time, and Biven's had observed this method had been done on originals.
Don't toss a brass butt plate in the stove to anneal. They will melt. I know!

 

[FlinterNick]

I use John Biven's method on butt plates. Anneal the part, get a close fit, then use a ball peen hammer to gently bring the edges of the plate down to contact the wood, and then file smooth. Saves a lot of time, and Biven's had observed this method had been done on originals.
Don't toss a brass butt plate in the stove to anneal. They will melt. I know!

Brass I anneal in an open fire outside, just put it on some coals until its dull red then quench.

 

[waksupi]

Brass I anneal in an open fire outside, just put it on some coals until its dull red then quench.

I just use a torch anymore. I had to do the dumb thing once! I'd just lit the fire in the shop, tossed it in, and forgot about it. Whoops!

 

[The Crisco Kid]

Getting the screws place in the right spot can be a problem for the final fit. If you get them out of position the top screw can force the plate to the rear and the bottom screw can force the plate upward, both resulting in gaps to the final fit after all the time fitting the thing. This can happen due to where the screw head contacts the beveled hole in the plate. One way to solve the problem is to thread the screw into the dowel first, without cracking it, and then drilling the hole for the dowel oversize before gluing it into the stock. If the plate is then pulled down tight against the inletting and held with duct tape, bungie cords, etc while the glue sets things will line up right. This is also an easy way to get the screw lined up, or timed, north and south with the stock.

 

[waksupi]

Getting the screws place in the right spot can be a problem for the final fit. If you get them out of position the top screw can force the plate to the rear and the bottom screw can force the plate upward, both resulting in gaps to the final fit after all the time fitting the thing. This can happen due to where the screw head contacts the beveled hole in the plate. One way to solve the problem is to thread the screw into the dowel first, without cracking it, and then drilling the hole for the dowel oversize before gluing it into the stock. If the plate is then pulled down tight against the inletting and held with duct tape, bungie cords, etc while the glue sets things will line up right. This is also an easy way to get the screw lined up, or timed, north and south with the stock.

To correct a screw orientation, chuck the screw in a drill press, and use a file to take stock off the bottom of the screw head. Repeat as needed. If the screws are forcing the butt plate to move, it is not well fit. I drill and countersink the holes in the butt plate, use a center punch to mark centers, then drill.

 

[HighUintas]

Is there a tutorial for Bivens method of peening the BP the last bit to fit? For a steel BP, I assume you would have to get it red hot and very slowly cool?

 

[waksupi]

Biven's gun building tutorial is in "Gunsmithing Tips and Projects". For steel, taking it red hot and then cooling slowly is all I've ever had to do. this can be done in a fire. I put them in my gas forge, heat them, and just leave them in to cool naturally. The book also has info on modern firearms from other author/builders.

https://www.amazon.com/Gunsmithing-...hing+Tips+and+Projects"&qid=1646697178&sr=8-2

 

[frankie]

@frankie , do you plan to use your duplicator for a fullstock long rifle? I'm wondering how well it would work since they are so long and thin.

My machine is supposed to do up to 6 feet and 10 inches in diameter. But I just wouldn't want to do a full stock. too much flexibility

 

[frankie]

@frankie , do you plan to use your duplicator for a fullstock long rifle? I'm wondering how well it would work since they are so long and thin.

This is a hawken stock I just turned. Trust me the turned blank is beautiful. I just havent sanded it yet.

 

[godutch]

My machine is supposed to do up to 6 feet and 10 inches in diameter. But I just wouldn't want to do a full stock. too much flexibility

I'm curious too as to your machine. It seems most don't go that long. Who's the manf. and is it an 'oldie' or fairly new? It has to be nice having your own duplicator !

 

[frankie]

I'm curious too as to your machine. It seems most don't go that long. Who's the manf. and is it an 'oldie' or fairly new? It has to be nice having your own duplicator !

It is very handy and have had it for 30 years. In my business its a must. Most of it was custom built. Like that Hawken stock (in the photo) I turned, there is still work to do (inletting). I will post pictures on the progress.

 

[JCKelly]

Brass, cartridge brass anyhow, is supposed to be about 70% copper with 30% zinc melted in.
Nice idea.
But your brass castings are different animals.
In order to get a sound, free-flowing cast metal the foundry adds some lead.
Lead. It does not much dissolve in the brass, it exists in your casting as just plain lead.
Lead melts about 621F.
So when you anneal that casting at some point it contains a little molten lead.
Which means your hot butt-plate or trigger guard has all the strength of molten lead if it is hotter than 600-odd degrees Fahrenheit.
Be gentle with your hot casting.
Me, I'd never quench it in water.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Where did you get your duplicator ?

I don't know what he has. But, I have had two Terrco duplicators. They were the entry level models. I didn't like. Bear to set up and worse to use. A good duplicator costs big money. Unless you plan to go into production shipping your blank to a professional for shaping is the way to go.

 

[deerstalkert]

kinda off the direction this thread was heading.
i want to thank Frankie for somewhere advising the use of a scraper in fitting the butt plate.
i was slowly blacking and removing wood with a rasp, chisel, and sandpaper. dug out a scraper in a carving set that has sat unused for 10-15 years and what a wonderful tool. when sharp! i am not very smart and it took me awhile but his suggestion finally germinated.

 

[frankie]

kinda off the direction this thread was heading.
i want to thank Frankie for somewhere advising the use of a scraper in fitting the butt plate.
i was slowly blacking and removing wood with a rasp, chisel, and sandpaper. dug out a scraper in a carving set that has sat unused for 10-15 years and what a wonderful tool. when sharp! i am not very smart and it took me awhile but his suggestion finally germinated.

These are the scrapers I use to final fit

 

[deerstalkert]

i have them all, just something i forgot all about. in the 70's, 80's, and early nineties i went through a faze of building stocks for unmentionables. i got every tool known to man according to the wife, just never used the scraper. i would be a younger man had i discovered it sooner!
in the dim recesses of my memory i vaguely remember trying one once and it was so dull it just made washboard in the channel. Life has become much easier since i learned to sharpen tools!
thank you again for mentioning the tool!
PS. the wife still thinks i don't know how to sharpen kitchen knives! she has so many i don't see the need to sharpen one. just grab one from the other drawer!

 

[frankie]

i have them all, just something i forgot all about. in the 70's, 80's, and early nineties i went through a faze of building stocks for unmentionables. i got every tool known to man according to the wife, just never used the scraper. i would be a younger man had i discovered it sooner!
in the dim recesses of my memory i vaguely remember trying one once and it was so dull it just made washboard in the channel. Life has become much easier since i learned to sharpen tools!
thank you again for mentioning the tool!
PS. the wife still thinks i don't know how to sharpen kitchen knives! she has so many i don't see the need to sharpen one. just grab one from the other drawer!

keep buying my wife knives. I hate sharpening them

 

[HighUintas]

How does one sharpen that type of scraper? Same as a chisel?

 

[frankie]

How does one sharpen that type of scraper? Same as a chisel?

go to the underside of the scraper and use a stone of various grit

 

[frankie]

A dowel would be the best, easy to do over if things don't line up, on my fowler buttplate I did a bunch of do-overs, three on this hole alone. This was my second build an quite a struggle for this newbie to complete.
View attachment 126503

really nice. I bet that took a lot of time and patience