Caliber of late 1700's rifles

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Splais

40 Cal.
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Has anyone read a study of the flintlock rifles built along the Lehigh style in the very late 1700's (post war) period as the trappers/explorers began moving out into the appalacians(?) and beyond that indicated what the most popular caliber was.

also excuse the lack of information, but were swamped barrels available on the real Lehigh school of rifles.

And lastly, when did double set triggers first appear. thanks.
 
Based on Shumways Rifles of Colonial America, Vol I of the 5 Lehigh style rifles shown, the average of 4 guns shown is .545 caliber. Mr. Shumway didn't say what the caliber of the 5th gun was.

Swamped barrels were common on all Pennsylvania rifles from all counties prior to the advent of fully machined straight barrels. This would make it very likely that any barrel that was made prior to about 1825 would be swamped.
I should mention that there is "swamped" and then their is "swamped", meaning that some of the barrels have a very noticable change in size while others have very little change.
The ones with little change may have as little as 1/16 of an inch or so on a flat from breech to middle and back to the larger muzzle.

Set triggers were used as far back as the Crossbow days.
IMO, because of the crude locks that were used on most of the matchlocks I have never seen a set trigger but by the time the Wheel lock came around set triggers were again fairly common on high priced guns.
 
Thank you so much. I have made one decision in my search - the rifle I get will be in the Lehigh style. I'm now deciding on barrel length and caliber. I've ordered a couple of books and been reading internet sites, but there is so much to learn.

Originally I had been thinking about a .45 caliber. But I am finding and you seem to confirm that the "real" working rifles were of larger caliber.

Having never seen an actual gun except the Hawkin style. I have another question: visually, for the slimness/sleekness look, does the caliber make that much difference between say .45 and .54 caliber? the one source I found with diameters indicated (at least in Colrain) that the .45 and .50 were the same demensions exteriorly; the .54 was marginally larger. thanks
 
Speaking of the Green Mountain 42 inch swamped barrel and the Colerain Golden Age 42 inch swamped barrel they seem to be the same size.

The .45 and .50 caliber are available in the B weight and the .50 and .54 are available in the C weight.

The last time I ordered parts from Pecatonica River they only inlet the stock I wanted for the B weight barrels so I strongly suggest that you talk to the potential provider of your stock to find out what your selected stock is capable of using.
This is the reason I changed my mind and decided to use a .50 caliber barrel rather than the .54 caliber I initially wanted to use.

It is best to know this before getting yourself all pumped up for a barrel that is not going to fit into the stock blank.

By the way, IMO attempting to inlet a swamped barrel is definitely not for the newcomer to building. It is too easy to scrap out a nice piece of wood while trying to enlarge a barrels mortice to a larger size.
 
It seems to me original flint locks with straight wall barrels are rare. The cap locks were becoming the gun of choice by the time of the straight walled barrels. Remington was selling manufactured barrels after 1816. I have never seen a Remington tapered barrel. :)
 
Jim,

Do you buy chance know what the barrel lengths of those real 5 Lehighs was you mention.

I have found a very nice lefthand Lehigh in .50 cal, but it only has a 38" barrel. I'm wondering how accurate to the type that is?

It also has a straight barrel and from above comments that seems like an unlikely barrel for this gun.
 
You said you were looking at .45cal at first. My suggestion to you is go with a larger cal. if it is a long barrel gun. I made that mistake with my first custom rifle back in the 60's. It came out way to muzzle heavy. It looks and shoots perfect but is impossible to shoot off hand more than a couple shots. It doesn't get much use because of it weight. I could have it rebored but will leave it as it was made.
Fox :thumbsup:
 
The Lehigh rifles shown in Mr. Shumway's book are:

No 56, Peter Neihart; c 1787, Smoothbore 43 1/2 long, .53 cal

No 57, Herman Rupp; c 1793, Smoothbore 47 1/2 long, .61 cal

No 58, Unknown: c unknown, Octagonal to round smoothbore 45 1/2 long, cal not given

No 59, Unknown: c unknown, Octagon to round smoothbore 47 11/16 long, .58 cal

No 60, J.M. (John Moll?), unknown, Octagonal to round smoothbore 46 1/4 long, .51 cal

Just goes to show what I know. I recently said I had not heard of a octagon to round barrel being used on "rifles".
Now, one could argue that these aren't rifles however they have the exact appearance of a rifle and IMO in no way could they have originally been intended to be used primarily as a shotgun.

There is a chance that these were originally rifled and have had their barrels rebored to their unrifled condition.
They are all much too elaborate to have been a simple barn gun.
 
silverfox said:
You said you were looking at .45cal at first. My suggestion to you is go with a larger cal. if it is a long barrel gun. I made that mistake with my first custom rifle back in the 60's. It came out way to muzzle heavy. It looks and shoots perfect but is impossible to shoot off hand more than a couple shots. It doesn't get much use because of it weight. I could have it rebored but will leave it as it was made.
Fox :thumbsup:

A swamped barrel will eliminate that muzzle heavy feel.

From what little I know about Lehigh rifles
barrels could range in lengths of about 40 inches to 50 inches, depending on the maker and period.

I suggest shooting any lehigh style gun prior to buying. They are notoriously hard to build correctly. The architecture of the buttstock needs to be right to prevent the comb of the stock from beating you on the cheek on recoil.

An alternative would be to have one custom built by someone who really knows what they are doing. That might be a little expensive, but any gun made by Bill Shipman, Allan Martin, or Eric Kettenburg will be a joy to shoot.

Eric is probably the foremost authority on Lehigh riles, BTW.
http://web.mac.com/kettenburgs/iWeb/Site/Home.html

Allan Martin had photos of a beautiful bench copy of Mauger made for a Mauger aficionado that is no longer illustrated on his web page. However, Allan does have several Lehighs illustrated.
http://www.allenmartinrifles.com/html/lehigh.html
http://www.billshipman.com/Gallery_Index.htm

Mark Wheland ain't bad either.
http://www.markwhelandrifles.com/styles.html

Good luck,
J.D.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
If your looking to build a Lehigh and want to have something custom, you can buy the parts yourself and have them built. This Early-style Lehigh rifle was made with a custom order 46" .50 cal straight octagonal barrel from Long Hammock Barrels,has a double trigger, and was put together and carved by Ray Franks at Sitting Fox Muzzleloaders, with the staining, wire inlays and finish work by "oldarmy" , a member here. It does NOT feel heavy to me with the straight barrel. And the choice of caliber was to achieve a happy medium. I did;nt want a .45, and a .58 was too much for me. The next rifle that is being built for me that is similiar to this one will have a 52" .50 swamped octagonal barrel.
Lehigh rifles are an excellent choice! :thumbsup:

jimmys_lehigh_001.jpg


jimmys_lehigh_006.jpg


jimmys_lehigh_0082.jpg


jimmys_lehigh_005.jpg
 
"It does NOT feel heavy to me with the straight barrel."

This can be true with many straight barrels but put a swamped barrel on the same gun and it is like night and day, also those who try to go for the styling and parts that were used with the originals the swamped barrel would be the correct choice.
 
That's what I've been told, and I concur. Thats the main reason the next barrel I have coming will be swamped. Originally, the cost of a swamped barrel was the deciding factor for the first rifle. But I agree, a swamped barrel is the way to go, especially if your gonna have a heavy caliber rifle thats extra long.
 
Okay, it's probably off-topic* but I really want to know:

How did "swamped" come to describe these barrels? Is it because swamps are dry on the edges and soft in the middle?

BTW, I'm a big fan of swamped barrels, probably because I have never tried to inlet one. My Father, however, considered them a worthy opponent.


*(off topic) Oh please, Claude, move me! I've never been bounced before!
 


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