caliber selection and meat damage

[MattC]

I was going to ask this in the .40 vs .45 topic, but decided to start a new one.

I am fairly new to hunting, but I read everything I can get my hands on. I have read that smaller, faster centerfire cartridges, like the .270 or .25-06, will do more meat damage to deer, antelope, etc, than will bigger and slower cartridges, like the .45/.70 or the like.

Can anybody comment on how this phenomena might apply to mz calibers? I've read here about guys using all different calibers on deer size game, but I don't recall any discussion of damage.

Dead is dead, but if one caliber destroys meat...

 

[Stumpkiller]

.50 or .54 round ball doesn't destroy much meat. Maybe 1" around the ball channel/hole down through to the exit hole. Very little compared to a centerfire.

a .690 round ball damages comparable to a 12 gauge slug. There is noticable brusing for a couple inches around the hole.

The slower balls punch through without the dynamic release of hydrostatic shock that the higher sectional density bullets impart. Which is also why vital shots should be taken over neck or bone shots. Use round balls like arrows - go for hemmorage if you can't count on stunning the animal.

Though I have had a couple bucks drop where they stood with round balls that clipped the bottom edge of the spine. That works, too. ;-)

 

[Roguedog]

I've always heard the old adage, "with a muzzleloader you can eat right up to the hole". It's been my experience that roundball wounds don't ruin that much meat. When I used to shoot deer with my centerfire, a shoulder shot usually meant throwing the shoulder away. Not so with my roundball shot deer.

Jeff

 

[Spikebuck]

I've taken 14 deer with .50 and .54 caliber and I didn't see any appreciable meat damage, even with the 425 gr Hornady GPs on several of those kills. Since I'm shooting broadside or slightly quartering away through the rib cage there isn't much "meat" there to damage anyway.

I've actually seen more bruising from my arrows than with ML's. The bruising damage an arrow can impart is impressive...but again, since it's in the rib cage it's of little concern to me.

 

[AWsaddles]

I have killed deer with several calibers , most a 50 cal and round ball. I found little tissue damage but lots of blood. I have also killed a couple with a 54 with the same results , plenty of blood and supprisingly little loss of meat. That being said , the most tissue damage I have received from a prb was with two deer I killed with my 40. In both cases little blood was found but tissue damage was massive. The second deer the ball actually passed through the shoulder on the off side and damage was compareable to a modern cf round. I am not advocating small calibers for large game because as stated earlier not much blood was found but I will say the results were quite supprising. I should have my 62 cal up and going by this year and hope to post some results from it soon.

 

[Carl Fowler III]

25 yards and under will make a difference for sure! The farther away from 25 yards the less damage you will see...the problem I've had is they never seem to stop once I shoo em away so I can shoot at these longer distances! :rotf:

 

[Dave K]

I well aimed shot in the boiler room really has no wasted meat. Any deer that is lost, is a bunch of wasted meat. Shoot within your skill range with a gun you can handle and if it all goes as practiced, there is no wasted meat.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Sometimes you waste good meat no matter how careful you try to be.

But yes, slipping a round ball through the rib cage doesn't damage muh meat.

 

[stinkyfeet]

I was going to ask this in the .40 vs .45 topic, but decided to start a new one.

I am fairly new to hunting, but I read everything I can get my hands on. I have read that smaller, faster centerfire cartridges, like the .270 or .25-06, will do more meat damage to deer, antelope, etc, than will bigger and slower cartridges, like the .45/.70 or the like.

Can anybody comment on how this phenomena might apply to mz calibers? I've read here about guys using all different calibers on deer size game, but I don't recall any discussion of damage.

Dead is dead, but if one caliber destroys meat...

The fragmenting bullets is a common trade mark for cf rifles as you said .243, 25/06, 270 not so much with a round ball the round ball will pancake but I have never seen one fragment of tumble like a high power. That's my experience though.

 

[Dave K]

That is the perfect way to 'waste' meat. Animal in hand and the heart is still very edible. You are so right about no matter how careful you are and wasted meat. I never felt too bad about an animal I can place my tag on. But, an animal not recovered gives me nightmares of a suffering animal and truly wasted meat.

 

[Wes/Tex]

Man years ago I was taught muzzleloader hunting by a fried of one of my uncles whose technique was amazingly similar to the guys who hunt with centerfire handguns. Basically, after a good hit they'd sit back and roll up some Bugler and wait a few minute to have a smoke. The basic theory was that a good hit would do the job but chasing after big game caused it to run further, etc. Their take was that the deer family will stop or lay down to rest and recover, if you will, and generally not get up again. Through the years, I've found this technique to work well and have tried teach it to others. You most often get the spectacular knock downs like modern smokeless rifles but you don't get as much wasted meat...always seemed a fair trade off.

Should add at this point that smoking and black powder makes a poor combo and NO, I don't advocate anyone start rolling doobies!! :rotf:

 

[BrownBear]

It's empirical for me cuzz I've only shot dozens of big game animals and perhaps thousands of small game. But I draw this conclusion:

Round ball meat destruction is a function of velocity in relationship to diameter. A small ball going fast sure tears up more than a large ball going slow. If you or the gun can stand to push a big ball to the same velocities as a small ball, you're going to see a whale of a lot more destruction from the big ball.

 

[George]

Dead center, BrownBear. All my deer but one have been killed with either .54 or .62, and even though I advocate and use what some consider heavy loads those balls are not really moving all that fast. Damaged meat has never been a problem. The one exception was a big buck last fall which I took with my .40 at 50+ yards. That little ball was still traveling in excess of 1500 fps when it hit, and the difference in damage was easily seen. There wasn't a lot of it, because the shot was center chest broadside, but all along the track the tissue was chewed up in a way I hadn't seen with the larger balls.

Spence

 

[Carl Fowler III]

What's a doobie? :shocked2: Is it like a do over...Oh I got it...Doobie or not Doobie, that is the question! :stir: Everytime I ask about this the answers all seem to go up in smoke...gotta go, got the mad muchies and feel like a nap :snore:

 

[MattC]

oh, yeah, wait, what? What was the question?.....

 

[Rat Trapper]

As far as meat damage I have found it to be more of a problem with the small calibers used for rabbits and squirrels. For example a 32 loaded with 20 grains of 3F and round ball, damage is like a 22 long rifle. But when you go to the 36 and use 30 grains of 3F you better hit the head or not be hungry. I think you will find the same when you go to a 40 or 45 for small game.

Now if you are talking deer, if you use a normal hunting load with either a conical or round ball you shouldn't have any problems. Only time I have seen a lot of damage is when someone was using a 150 grain charge in a modern style muzzle loader. One of those 150 grain loads once blew the heart into tiny bits! Still even with those charges if you can keep you bullets off the shoulders and stay in the rib area, no meat is lost.

 

[Vaino]

I've always been a "meat hunter" whether small or big game....so don't take shots that ruin meat. Head shots on small game and rib shots on big game eliminate wasted meat...irregardless if a MLer or CF is used......Fred

 

[nchawkeye]

Most of my muzzleloading deer have been killed with either a .45 or .54 ball...Not much difference in blood shot meat, the .54 just exits more often...

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Yes I agree with the concensus.

I think for you, the new hunter, you must also recognise that some of the folks writing about cartridge performance at impact (terminal ballistics) may not be traditional "meat" hunters. Trophy hunting for more than the rack really doesn't come in until the mid 19th century (iirc) with Martha Maxwell starting to mount big game animals. The modern cartridge trend remains with the Victorian mindset.., more range and more power. Until today, when getting venison is starting to be more of a priority than a huge mount..., and they find that "more range and more power" is resulting in less meat. They are surprised at that..., because they don't realize that the objective of their cartridge was to down the animal to harvest the head, not the meat.

Meanwhile the folks whose tradition is in using black powder, and the folks whose tradition is in using so called "utility calibers" like .32 Winchester, .30-30, .35 Remington, may not have an exceptional rack on the wall, but gee we sure do eat a lot of venison and other critters.

:thumbsup:

LD

 

[Rifleman1776]

Round ball meat destruction is a function of velocity in relationship to diameter.

Bingo. You get the gold ring. :hatsoff:
The first deer I ever killed with a muzzle loader was my .45 flinter using a prb and 90+ grains of bp. There was a substantial amount of meat damage and waste. That dissapointed me.
In following seasons I reduced the charge to my final standard of 65 gr. bp behind at prb. Meat damage is almost none. And, for the record, the deer as just as ded and drop where they stand or within 20 feet.