Camp Knife Expectations

[Cpl. Ashencheeks]

After borrowing a relative's S&W fixed blade knife, which I bought as a gift for them some years back, I have been wanting to get a decent camp knife. This knife came into so many different uses, I would not really ever want to be without one when in a camp environment.

I would not want it to be too big either, Bowies or Arkansas toothpicks are fine for some people, but not me.

7" to 10" overall length with about a 4" to 5" carbon steel blade would be fine.

I do have a short Dozier designed Boker high grade steel knife that is used specifically for field dressing, but I would definitely want something different and more knock-around for a camp knife.

My requirements in a camp knife would be something full tanged that could chop 'V' cuts in small to medium arm thickness wood when teamed up with a baton into potential firewood, as well as small splitting tasks on wood up to 2 to 3 inches thick.

It should be able to hold an edge well enough to skin bark and still hold that edge to some efficient degree after use.

It might even at times serve to cut food providing it is properly clean.

Some of the Green river knives seem to fit these requirements for me, and I am particularly drawn to the roach bladed knives.

I would not mind advice on what to look for though.

I was wondering what others expect out of such a multi-purpose implement?

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I was taught, and adhere to, if you are beating on your knife to chop wood... you are using two wrong tools to do what the right tool was meant to do. That's why I have a camp knife, and a 'hawk at all times. :wink:

My camp kife is 6", carbon steel, and my neck knife is 3". The camp knife is for general cutting things like rope, or whittling a tent stake or ridge pole pin. In a pinch if I didn't have a cooking knife set aside for that job, once cleaned the camp knife will serve as a butcher or veggie cutter. The neck knife is for skinning deer and cutting patches. It is very sharp and great for cutting apart a large animal joint by severing tendons and ligaments.

I either have a "small" 'hawk or my "mouse" hawk with a poll. They are for cutting and/or spitting wood, hammering stakes, and when needed, spitting a deer pelvis.

LD

 

[Cpl. Ashencheeks]

I do have a Trail Hawk with a poll now, but the reason I used this S&W in this manner is because of having forgot to bring a hatchet.

With that advice, in the future I will be more attentive to my equipment when going into the bush.

I used the S&W more in a manner to cut or carve v-notches rather than chop and the broke the wood into suitable sized pieces by either rock wedging or kicking the wood at the appropriate spots.

However, I did use this knife with a wooden baton to split wood with.

I did have other knives with me at the time for other uses such as food or cord cutting.

 

[LRB]

If you are set on batoning a knife, which I would strongly advise against as a habit, you would want a blade larger than 4" or 5", and probably 1/4" thick or close to it. The blade would be best heat treated with an edge quench or drawn spine. 5160 steel, or similar, would be advised for shock resistance. Even then batoning any knife is just not a good habit to get into.

 

[Cpl. Ashencheeks]

1/4" thick or close to it. The blade would be best heat treated with an edge quench or drawn spine. 5160 steel, or similar, would be advised for shock resistance. Even then batoning any knife is just not a good habit to get into.

I will keep this in mind from now on, thanks for the advice. I will do my best to avoid using a baton on any knife from here on out.

The blade I was using was about 3/16" thick after measuring a similar knife I have.

This was during a cold weather turkey hunt and I needed to cut some wood for a fire. I was rather disappointed to find that my hatchet was not packed for the trip.

 

[Brokennock]

While I don't understand the groups aversion to batoning, hey axes/hatchets/hawks do get lost/forgoten/stolen. And sometimes I find I can cut certain notches with far more control batoning than swinging a hawk or hatchet, it's more like using a chisel. It sounds like you are looking for something more "bushcraft" oriented in a camp knife. What you didn't mention (or I missed it) is price range and if it needs to be pc/hc?
Check out a Mora 2.0 or Condor bushcraft knives on the cheap end of things. The guys who used to be BlindHorse Knives have split into two seperate shops (too bad) and they still make great stuff. The used to tailor and tweak some of there designs to at least look pc/hc at first glance but offer modern performance. Checkout the pathfinder store for the SRO Edge made by Blade Smith , The pathfinder scout (made by former BlindHorse maker BattleHorse knives), Jeff Whit's bush knife, or Halibus Bushtools' Pathfinder "trade" knife.
Some don't like the scandi grind on a lot of these knives, nothing is easier to resharpen in the field, it's great for carving and bush tasks, a flat grind may be better for food prep, and some feel it is too likely to roll when used ofr batoning on harder woods, I have not had this problem with my BlindHorse scandi grind.

 

[Brokennock]

Sorry, got carried away with suggestions for models. Not what you asked for. I look for durability, edge retention but with a ease of sharpening that can be maintained in the field, handiness/feel, comfort in use. The last few are somewhat "intangible" and different for all of us. Certain handle shapes and blade shapes seem more tiring to use for certain tasks. Edge grind I touched on before and it also has it's "camps" I try to be open minded about it and see what works. The only grind I really don't like is a "hollow" grind. I love my scandi, some hate it. A convex grind is great, strong, versatile, long lasting, but I find it more work than I want to get into to resharpen fireside in the field. Others love it and find it no trouble.

 

[swathdiver]

How can you fellas talk about all these cool knives and such without adding pictures??? :idunno:

hotoSmile:

 

[Loyalist Dave]

While I don't understand the groups aversion to batoning, hey axes/hatchets/hawks do get lost/forgoten/stolen.

It's not an aversion to an emergency situation.

My point was that one should not be choosing a knife with the intent to use it to split wood with a club and thus omitting the 'hawk.

There is this modern sub-culture of knife afficionados who want the ultimte Rambo knife. Well maybe with modern alloys you can come up with a fighting knife, that's also a good skinner, and an axe, etc etc.

That's probably a good topic for a modern, knife site. :wink:

I carried while in the service an original Gerber LMF, still have it. Prior to that I carried a KBar. Still have that too. I noticed though, that even the guys who had knives the size of the Gerber BMF... none of the knives did all that well in the chopping and hammering category. I bought a medium 'hawk with a poll and started carrying that in addition to the knife. Made a HUGE difference in the field.

Soon a lot of fellow Marines were carrying 'hawks or some type of hatchet.

They had some pretty good steel in the latter half of the 18th century, and well into the 19th century...not to mention the 20th century. They could easily have made very thick, durable knives well suited to "batoning"... they probably did do just that... but the 'hawk didn't die out, and it still hasn't. Simon Kenton (iirc) is documented as having cached tools... both knives and 'hawks. Nessmuk carried a double bitted hatchet, one edge ground for chopping the other with a different angle for splitting plus a "camp knife". Kephart recommended an ax as well as a camp knife.

I think that the physics involved defeats the idea of one perfect tool for chopping, hammer, and slicing, especially if you omit 21st century alloys as possible blade materials. That's all.

LD

 

[LaBonte]

Batoning has become popular due to the lightweight muti-purpose tool minimalist bush craft movement.

As a pro knifemaker my warranty becomes void if the knife is batoned in other than an emergency situation - simply the majority of knives were and are not designed for such abuse, and yes from a scientific viewpoint it's an abuse when metallurgy, design etc are taken into consideration

 

[graybeard]

Not PC I'm sure, but I carry a bunch of knives. Neck knife for patches, four-inch blade for dressing deer and cutting breasts out of grouse, Old Timer jackknife for cleaning trout and eating, and a Boy Scout knife for special needs. I usually carry a hawk as well. graybeard

 

[Preacher Jeremy]

I carry a green river butcher, a folder bought from Crazy Crow, and a hatchet. The butcher is for big cutting jobs, the folder for more precision cutting and doubles as a patch knife, and the hatchet is for chopping and splitting wood. If I was in an emergency situation, and I forgot the hatchet, I would baton the butcher, but only as a last resort.

 

[Cpl. Ashencheeks]

As a pro knifemaker my warranty becomes void if the knife is batoned in other than an emergency situation - simply the majority of knives were and are not designed for such abuse, and yes from a scientific viewpoint it's an abuse when metallurgy, design etc are taken into consideration

I do believe in the right tool for the right job, but I am curious about the scientific standpoint you mention.

Immediate problems from batoning I would think would be loosening of the rivets and adhesive in the handles (scales?), forcing the edge profile to do something that it was not really designed for and dulling the edge more quickly.

Is there anything else that happens to the metal in a knife after batoning? Magnetic issues? Jumbling and weakening of alloys? Change in the temper?

I am curious about what might really be happening to these tools when taking some abuse from striking with a baton.

Unless we were knife makers ourselves or more knowledgable in the proper use of our tools, we probably would not consider such things and just go about using and abusing in fashions without consideration for what could be happening to the tool.

Some people want to even strike flints from their knives if it is the right kind of steel.

I tend to bring too many things with me when afield, and multi-use tools in that case seems like a good idea.

I have usually considered a tomahawk as a multi-use tool and looked at the 18th century American outdoorsman (soldier, hunter, scout, etc.) as a master at using a small amount of equipment for many different things so as not to be weighed down by too much.

Do not get me wrong, I am not challenging what anyone is saying against the use of batoning, and will adhere to the advice given against it, because when your doing it, it really does have that feeling of 'I am not really using this tool properly and I am risking it's longevity.'

So I am thinking I have probably had a misinterpetation of the term 'Camp Knife' and what tasks it could be used for.

 

[Stophel]

Generally, knife blades are (or should be) too hard to go whacking on them with a mallet and prying and levering logs apart with them.

I used to like heavy chopper knives, but found myself not needing to do much heavy chopping. A sturdy knife that is easily capable of light chopping is good, but a double thick meat cleaver isn't generally necessary, and not so great for skinning a squirrel. And an axe is way better for chopping!

I had never even heard of "batoning" until relatively recently. It had never crossed my mind to split logs into firewood with a knife in a "survival" situation.... I still can't imagine needing to do that. :idunno: The survivalist/bushcraft trend of recent years seems to emphasize the use of ONE tool to do EVERYTHING with ("what if you're lost in the wilderness with only one tool... what would it be?) One would be better served learning to improvise, adapt, overcome.... :grin: honing skills that don't require some specific wonder tool.

 

[oldude]

Camp Knife to me is a tool to be used in camp or on the trail for cutting not chopping or splitting, if the wood needs to be split to burn then find something smaller, sure split wood burns better than rounds but if you forgot to pack or lost your chopper then pull up our breachcloth and deal with it.
My every day carry knife is an Old Timer folder with two blades, one blade has NEVER cut anything but meat/food and the other is a utility blade. This knife has done time on the farm in the woods,14 yrs military service,in the copper mines and everyday companion, I bought this knife in 1976 so it is truly an old timer and while not good as new it is better than alot of the new stuff out there but you don't get that kind of service from a tool unless you use it as intended. Jim

 

[Brokennock]

Sorry. I don't have the skills or technology for posting pics. Well mostly the skills. I understand you need an account with something like photobucket and I won't do that. My "footprint" on the web is WAY to big as it is with my participation in various forums. Far far bigger than I ever wanted it to be. If there was a way to put pics right on here straight from my phone or my computer memory from my digital camera. I would indulge with pics. Any of these knives can be searched and pics obtained.

I have never had a problem with any of my better knives even with batoning or other abuse. I find things like digging clay from a stream bank far more abusive. No way I'm carrying a shovel too. While I do often carry a hawk, sometimes I just don;t want to carry so much stuff. And I can't tolerate a uni-tasker. While I've spent many days afield never firing a shot, I can't think of many that a good knife didn;t come in handy. Normaly i have a 2.2" Kelgin Paula's Hunter ina a kneck sheath for dressing deer, small game, fish, cutting dried smoked sausages and stuff for lunch, and other small tasks. What I carry for a big knife does depend on what I'm doing and what else I'm carrying. If carrying a hawk and trying to keep my gear as 18th century as possible (at least my visible gear)I'll carry one of my Jeff White "trade" knives. No hawk/hatchet and ging light with more modern gear, my Blindhorse PLSK is my favorite. I've never really liked big knives but this one seems to fit me so well that it seems to do small knife tasks with ease as well as handling big, and "abusive", tasks effortlessly.

I would love a pc/hc styled knife that performs like my Blindhorse.

 

[KingofDerby]

Sorry. I don't have the skills or technology for posting pics. Well mostly the skills. I understand you need an account with something like photobucket and I won't do that.

Not on the thread topic but... http://imgur.com/ allows you to upload images without an account. Throw it up and forget it.

 

[crockett]

The "Bush Craft" movement. PERFECT WORD. The knife chopping down tree business started maybe 15 years ago in the knife magazines and was a test to prove the quality of a blade, I don't think it was originally thought to be used as a day to day wilderness application. People read the magazines, saw the photos and all of a sudden everyone wanted a knife that can chop down a tree.
When I got started in outdoor life I liked to move about every day with a pack on my back. A tarp was the perfect tent unless the bugs were bad, boiled rice "as is" meant I just rinsed out the pail. Dry branches on dead standing trees- quick and easy fire, maybe a roll of birch bark to get it going.
A knife? For minor cutting tasks. The last thing I wanted to do is "bush craft" where I chopped down a tree and built a privy and then tried to bake a cake in a reflector over. I was a "woods loafer" and the less camp chores the better.
So to each his own but IMHO you can travel for months in the wilderness and never need a knife capable of chopping down trees and get along fine. I was on one Hudson Bay trip where about 3 miles of "little sticks" had to be cleared out to get a canoe through. That was done with a Hudson's Bay Axe that was in truth, a life saver, I would not wanted to try that job with any knife.
But, as I said, to each his own.

 

[ByGeorge]

I'm new to this, but the camp knife I just picked up seems to fit your description. It's got a great aesthetic, I think, and will be a good all-purpose tool.
not a hatchet, though...
It's made by a guy in Oregon, his wife makes the sheathes. I bought it locally in a black-powder shop that carries his knives.

 

[rusty]

Yeah the whole batoning thing has been hard for me to get my head around,if I have a fine edge on a knife,I 'll be darned if I would try to pound it through a tree branch I thought that is what the axe is for...