Can you I.D. this double?

[jethro224]

I recently did some horse tradin' and ended up with an old double barrel shotgun that I don't know much about. I was hoping one of you experts could help me identify the gun. Here's a few pics.

I can barely make out the words "LAMINATED STEEL" on the center rib near the breech and these marks are on the bottom of the barrels;

That cylinder looking thing is my drawing of the lug.

The muzzles measure out at .755" and .756" so I guess it's an 11 gauge??? All of the finish is gone from the metal. The wood is decent. The bores have a little light pitting. I'm trying to scrub them out as best I can.
I got it from a reputable local gun store and the owner/gunsmith seemed to think it was safe to shoot. First I need to scrub some more on the bores and find a couple of nipples and some cards to fit. What do you guys think? Would you shoot it?
Where do I find 11 gauge cards?
Can I shoot round balls?
Who sells 'em that big and what size should I look for anyway?
Any load recommendations?
And when/where did this gun come from?
Thanks in advance for any info. :hatsoff:

 

[bingo1952]

You can get them from Circle Fly. Can't help with the gun ID.

 

[wvbuckbuster]

Dixie catalog used to have proof and gauge marks listed in the back for shotguns of different countrys. Can't make the figures in the circle but looks somewhat like a Belgium mark. The 18.8 is the gauge I believe. I have an old 16 gauge that looks close to yours. If you do shoot it load light at first and stick it in old tire with a string tied to it. That way you don't get to close if it comes apart on you. Nice old gun by the way!

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Belgian 11 bore. I don't think I'd shoot it--even with light loads. At least have it checked by a competent black powder gunsmith first.

 

[musketman]

Dixie catalog used to have proof and gauge marks listed in the back for shotguns of different countrys.

We have proof marks here in our links section.

Proof Marks For Muzzleloaders

 

[paulvallandigham]

I believe its a Belgian made gun. I would not even think about shooting RB out of it. Laminated steel may be a form of Damascus, dating from the 1870- . I would have a competent Black Powder Gunsmith check out the barrels with a good borescope, to find out what the condition may be. IF you shoot it, realize how old the metal is, and think how you would like to be handled at that age!

If you shoot, use only black powder- consider Fg instead of FFg to help keep pressures as low as possible, and use nothing more than a light 12 gauge load. Say, 2 1/2 drams-68 grains-- and 1 oz or less of powder. BE NICE to that old gun. Circle Fly can provide the wads.

You really only need OS Cards, and you can even get them from Track of the Wolf. Just use 4 OS cards over the powder, then 2 OS cards on top of the shot. Use an awl to poke an off-center hole in the cards, and use a greased cleaning patch run down the barrel after seating ( or while seating) the top 2 OS cards.

This will lube the bore adequately, let the shot slide over the walls of the bore, reducing or eliminating lead streaks, and flat spots on the outer lead pellets, while leaving the Residue from the burning powder moist and easy to clean.

The light 2 1/2 dram load is good for rabbits, squirrels, and even some birds out to 25 yards, depending on the choice of size of shot you use. #8 works for dove and quail, or grouse. #5 works better for Pheasants, rabbits, and squirrels. #6 will work for squirrels, too, as well as rabbits. As long the shots are close, #6 shot will also kill pheasants. Read Bob Spenser's Black Powder Notebook, both his article on loads, and the other article by V.M. Starr. V.M. covers most of the common gauges including the 10 gauge. Bob's article sticks with what he uses, which is a 20 gauge fowler. Both have excellent advice on choosing loads for MLers, whether you shoot a replica, or an original.
http://members.aye.net/~bspen/index.html

 

[howdydoit]

A mighty fine double you got here tho. keeping things light sounds like good info. I bet she is a sweet shooter to boot.

Howdy

 

[Mike Brooks]

As others have said, It's belgian, pretty late too judging by the style of the trigger guard, probably 1870's.
I'd have a good look at those bores before I shot it. I would never shoot round ball out of that gun, it has damascus barrels. You may be able to see the damascus pattern under the fore arm. Generally these old doubles that have seen as much use as this one have alot of muzzle wear and shoot real crappy patterns untill you cut about 1/2" off the muzzle to get back to good bores again.
This gun has been heavily refinished, both wood and metal. It was probably checkered at one time too. You might check that crack at the the standing breech and make sure it's sound and been repaired before you decide to shoot it.
CIRCLE FLY WADS

 

[jethro224]

Thanks to all who replied. Your insights are appreciated. :hatsoff:
For now, at least, I'll just clean 'er up good and wait until I can take 'er to a qualified Blackpowder gunsmith for a good check-up. Then I'll decide if I want to shoot it. I like all of my appendages and would prefer to keep them attached. :grin:
Anybody know a good Blackpowder gunsmith in central Illinois?

 

[paulvallandigham]

Craig Witte, at Fairmount, East of Homer, and South of Ogden & Oakwood(5589 E. C.R.1100N, Fairmount, Il. 61841: Phone: 217-733-2387)

There is also Barney Rechkemmer, South of Oakland(21613 E. CR. 1800 N., Oakland.217-346-2039). You might reach out to some of the guys at the LeRoy Rifle and Pistol Club to see if there is someone local that they know.

West of You, Ron Darnall is an experienced Gunsmith who might be willing to take a look at the piece. Call him first. He's W,and S of Bloomington, off Rte. 9. Most of his work is on cartridge guns, however.

 

[jethro224]

Thanks Paul. :hatsoff:

 

[44-henry]

I personally think it would serve you better as a wall hanger. That gun looks as if it has seen a lot of use and probably was only so-so quality in the day judging by the engraving and other details. High quality English percussion shotguns are not overly expensive and you can generally find one in decent shooting condition cheaper than the reproductions if you want to shoot an original.