chawbeef
40 Cal.
It seems that I can't get Birchwood Casey Plum Brown in Canada. It cannot be shipped across the border or to a PO Box...............Daniel
can't get Birchwood Casey Plum Brown
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Col. Batguano
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Hmmm. Maybe you can get the chemical formula and make your own? The product has been out so long I bet it's in the public domain by now.
Another option might be to just buy some and bring it back with you (if legal) the next time you're in the states.
On the other hand, if you're trying to brown bigger parts like a rifle barrel, getting it heated to an even consistent heat to take the brown evenly can be problematic if you don't have a good place to do it with good heat control, like a real big oven, or you happen to live on the sun. That's why most people here tend to go with cold browning instead for long gun barrels.
Another option might be to just buy some and bring it back with you (if legal) the next time you're in the states.
On the other hand, if you're trying to brown bigger parts like a rifle barrel, getting it heated to an even consistent heat to take the brown evenly can be problematic if you don't have a good place to do it with good heat control, like a real big oven, or you happen to live on the sun. That's why most people here tend to go with cold browning instead for long gun barrels.
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Hi,
Plum brown finish is not very good. See if you can get Laurel Mountain Forge rust browning from Track of the Wolf. It may be that Plum brown is considered hazardous because I believe it contains mercuric chloride, at least the older stuff did.
dave
Plum brown finish is not very good. See if you can get Laurel Mountain Forge rust browning from Track of the Wolf. It may be that Plum brown is considered hazardous because I believe it contains mercuric chloride, at least the older stuff did.
dave
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Find a cold/rust-brown - the finish is far more durable and (I believe) looks richer & deeper.
Birchwood Casey Plum Brown does not contain any mercury in any form although it used to.
Its OSHA Safety Data Sheet says it is classified as a hazardous substance in Australia. That might be a contributing factor in trying to ship it to Canada.
Here's a link to the SDS. It's a PDF file so you will need Adobe running on your computer to read it. https://www.birchwoodcasey.com/get...4145-Plum-Brown-Liquid-Barrel-Finish.pdf.aspx
Although it lists several of its ingredients, I'm positive all of the things in it are not listed.
No telling what other "non-toxic" things are in it but because they are non-toxic they don't have to be listed on the sheet.
That gets us back to other browning/bluing agents.
Because many of them contain nitric acid, they are probably also considered "hazardous".
I don't know if TOTW will ship them to Canada or not but it's worth contacting them and asking.
As for making your own, basically, all it takes is something that will cause rust.
The problem is, if it is the common red rust like salt makes, it is the wrong kind.
The book, "FIREARM BLUING AND BROWNING" by R.H.Angier, © Thomas G. Samworth, 1936, STACKPOLE BOOKS, lists dozens of different formulas for browning.
Many of them are quite complex and all of them require chemicals that might be hard to get.
One of the simpler ones uses:
Mercuric chloride, 55 grs
Spirit of nitre 4% (nitric acid 4%), 2 US fl oz
Alcohol 95°, 2 US fl oz
"First dissolve the chloride in the alcohol, let stand for 6 hours, then add the spirit of nitre. Being practically anhydrous, this brown is frost-proof.
Working instructions.
At Springfield the parts to be browned were degreased by rubbing with whiting or powdered gypsum, or by boiling in potash solution: the browne applied with sponge. Duration of rusting 8 hours for the first, 6 hours for each subsequent pass. (Boiling or steaming assumed but no note on this.) Scratching after each pass with a 9" circular brush of spring-steel wire, 5/1000" (36 Brown & Sharpe guage), running at 800 revs./min. (peripheral speed 31.4 ft./sec.). Simple oiling after last pass.
Stelle & Harrison give a slightly different composition, and working instructions as follows. Let rust in a warm room for 10 to 12 hours in summer, 15 to 20 hours in winter, rub off rust with cloth and repeat till colour dark enough (no mention of boiling).
At room temperature this browne acts very slowly, therefore best used in connection with (improved or regular) steam chamber, then giving a very good, deep black in 3 to at most 4 passes."
Anyone trying this is doing so at their own risk.
I don't know if it works or not. :grin:
Its OSHA Safety Data Sheet says it is classified as a hazardous substance in Australia. That might be a contributing factor in trying to ship it to Canada.
Here's a link to the SDS. It's a PDF file so you will need Adobe running on your computer to read it. https://www.birchwoodcasey.com/get...4145-Plum-Brown-Liquid-Barrel-Finish.pdf.aspx
Although it lists several of its ingredients, I'm positive all of the things in it are not listed.
No telling what other "non-toxic" things are in it but because they are non-toxic they don't have to be listed on the sheet.
That gets us back to other browning/bluing agents.
Because many of them contain nitric acid, they are probably also considered "hazardous".
I don't know if TOTW will ship them to Canada or not but it's worth contacting them and asking.
As for making your own, basically, all it takes is something that will cause rust.
The problem is, if it is the common red rust like salt makes, it is the wrong kind.
The book, "FIREARM BLUING AND BROWNING" by R.H.Angier, © Thomas G. Samworth, 1936, STACKPOLE BOOKS, lists dozens of different formulas for browning.
Many of them are quite complex and all of them require chemicals that might be hard to get.
One of the simpler ones uses:
Mercuric chloride, 55 grs
Spirit of nitre 4% (nitric acid 4%), 2 US fl oz
Alcohol 95°, 2 US fl oz
"First dissolve the chloride in the alcohol, let stand for 6 hours, then add the spirit of nitre. Being practically anhydrous, this brown is frost-proof.
Working instructions.
At Springfield the parts to be browned were degreased by rubbing with whiting or powdered gypsum, or by boiling in potash solution: the browne applied with sponge. Duration of rusting 8 hours for the first, 6 hours for each subsequent pass. (Boiling or steaming assumed but no note on this.) Scratching after each pass with a 9" circular brush of spring-steel wire, 5/1000" (36 Brown & Sharpe guage), running at 800 revs./min. (peripheral speed 31.4 ft./sec.). Simple oiling after last pass.
Stelle & Harrison give a slightly different composition, and working instructions as follows. Let rust in a warm room for 10 to 12 hours in summer, 15 to 20 hours in winter, rub off rust with cloth and repeat till colour dark enough (no mention of boiling).
At room temperature this browne acts very slowly, therefore best used in connection with (improved or regular) steam chamber, then giving a very good, deep black in 3 to at most 4 passes."
Anyone trying this is doing so at their own risk.
I don't know if it works or not. :grin:
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Hi Zonie,
I suspected they had changed the formula. The last time I used it was in 1980. I decided then that it was a lousy browning compared with cold rust methods.
dave
I suspected they had changed the formula. The last time I used it was in 1980. I decided then that it was a lousy browning compared with cold rust methods.
dave
chawbeef
40 Cal.
Thanks for taking the time to post that Jim.....Daniel
chawbeef
40 Cal.
Thank you Dave, your input is appreciated..........Daniel
Do not mess with mercuric chloride. It is not just "toxic", it is an aggressive neurotoxin. Many of the quick blues and browns in the book mentioned use it and work well. It will also rot your brain. It made me sick. There is not much a doctor can do for you. Avoid it at all costs
I have made quick brown with stannous chloride and ammonium nitrate in solution. It works too.
The modern BC plumb brown works very well. I use it all the time. Any poor result is user error. I buy it by the quart and would put my results against anyone's. You can make you own version from the MSDS.
Nitric acid it the ingredient that makes postal bureaucrats soil their diapers. It is nasty stuff full strength. Not so as in the BC solution. Doesn't matter. They have their stupid ideas. You can 't fix stupid.
I have made quick brown with stannous chloride and ammonium nitrate in solution. It works too.
The modern BC plumb brown works very well. I use it all the time. Any poor result is user error. I buy it by the quart and would put my results against anyone's. You can make you own version from the MSDS.
Nitric acid it the ingredient that makes postal bureaucrats soil their diapers. It is nasty stuff full strength. Not so as in the BC solution. Doesn't matter. They have their stupid ideas. You can 't fix stupid.
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Hi,
Let's see some of your results with BC.
dave
Let's see some of your results with BC.
dave
Like you say, most of the solutions shown in that book use mercuric chloride or things that are even nastier.
IMO, almost all of the browning solutions and a lot of other things in gun building are meant for professionals to use.
These things aren't for untrained people and they have dangers. That's one of the main reasons we have this area in the Muzzleloadingforum.
When in doubt, ask.
One method mentioned in the book that doesn't use any highly toxic things is mentioned, although I don't recommend eating it.
It is listed as, Aa. 2 Salammoniac brown
A 0.5 % solution was made using sal ammoniac and apparently water as the carrier.
Without boiling it produced a "satisfactory dark brownish-black after 5 to 6 passes...
Oiling with Vaseline oil and evaporation of the oil at about 150°C (say 300°F) recommended." (p62)
I suspect some light carding between coats was used but he didn't say.
Sal Ammoniac is sold as a "Tinning block" for soldering irons. It removes oxides and aids in fluxing the joints for soldering.
It can be bought on line. https://www.amazon.com/Large-Sal-Ammoniac-Tinning-Block/dp/B0051KK252
IMO, almost all of the browning solutions and a lot of other things in gun building are meant for professionals to use.
These things aren't for untrained people and they have dangers. That's one of the main reasons we have this area in the Muzzleloadingforum.
When in doubt, ask.
One method mentioned in the book that doesn't use any highly toxic things is mentioned, although I don't recommend eating it.
It is listed as, Aa. 2 Salammoniac brown
A 0.5 % solution was made using sal ammoniac and apparently water as the carrier.
Without boiling it produced a "satisfactory dark brownish-black after 5 to 6 passes...
Oiling with Vaseline oil and evaporation of the oil at about 150°C (say 300°F) recommended." (p62)
I suspect some light carding between coats was used but he didn't say.
Sal Ammoniac is sold as a "Tinning block" for soldering irons. It removes oxides and aids in fluxing the joints for soldering.
It can be bought on line. https://www.amazon.com/Large-Sal-Ammoniac-Tinning-Block/dp/B0051KK252
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https://www.dropbox.com/s/vjvvgywlin3jkvj/IMG_3579.JPG?dl=0
This was done with BC. The prep was a great big single cut file then industrial Scotchbrite.
Do not over polish! If you must go to #320 no more. Many coats will come out a super dark purple. Alloy makes a big difference
Heat is applied to a barrel with two propane torches. I have also used a gasoline blow torch. IT must evaporate off quickly and not run. If the solution drips you get a mark.
I apply the solution with a wad of cotton cloth. Do not make it dripping wet. Resistant spots are worked over with de-greased steel wool and more solution. A single barrel would use more than the little consumer size blue bottle.
I usually let the barrel rust on it own for a couple of days. I card off the chunks with de-greased steel wool. The new solution has a lot of after rust. Go with it.
This was done with BC. The prep was a great big single cut file then industrial Scotchbrite.
Do not over polish! If you must go to #320 no more. Many coats will come out a super dark purple. Alloy makes a big difference
Heat is applied to a barrel with two propane torches. I have also used a gasoline blow torch. IT must evaporate off quickly and not run. If the solution drips you get a mark.
I apply the solution with a wad of cotton cloth. Do not make it dripping wet. Resistant spots are worked over with de-greased steel wool and more solution. A single barrel would use more than the little consumer size blue bottle.
I usually let the barrel rust on it own for a couple of days. I card off the chunks with de-greased steel wool. The new solution has a lot of after rust. Go with it.
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rafterob
62 Cal.
Hey now, don't be dissin' plum brown. Done right, it creates a heavy, durable plum brown finish. There are a number of tricks to assure that happens, though. I feel it is a viable option for those not wanting to create a sweat lodge for their barrel.
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Hi,
I'll diss plum brown or any other product whenever I want thank you. Having said that, however, my experience with it is years ago and I hated the color and look, and it was not very durable compared to cold rust browns. I know how to apply cold and hot browns and I simply did not like the old PB. The new formulation may be better, which is nice although I really cannot assess that from Scota4570's photo. FYI, you don't need a "sweat box" to do a good cold rust brown unless you have very low humidity.
dave
I'll diss plum brown or any other product whenever I want thank you. Having said that, however, my experience with it is years ago and I hated the color and look, and it was not very durable compared to cold rust browns. I know how to apply cold and hot browns and I simply did not like the old PB. The new formulation may be better, which is nice although I really cannot assess that from Scota4570's photo. FYI, you don't need a "sweat box" to do a good cold rust brown unless you have very low humidity.
dave
"FYI, you don't need a "sweat box" to do a good cold rust brown unless you have very low humidity."
And there lies the issue. The humidity tends to run around 50% here. In the fall is can be lower. We average 12 inches of rain. The temperature is very moderate. Highs run in the 60's most of the year. Lows are mostly in the 50's. We don't have seasons as such. IN the summer it is cool and foggy. The winter gets some cool rains, no snow.
IMHO it is the most comfortable weather anywhere. : )
We never have warm humid summer days like the middle of the country. So for my space restrictions and weather, quick browns work. Before somebody points it out, I am not hanging gun barrels in the shower.
And there lies the issue. The humidity tends to run around 50% here. In the fall is can be lower. We average 12 inches of rain. The temperature is very moderate. Highs run in the 60's most of the year. Lows are mostly in the 50's. We don't have seasons as such. IN the summer it is cool and foggy. The winter gets some cool rains, no snow.
IMHO it is the most comfortable weather anywhere. : )
We never have warm humid summer days like the middle of the country. So for my space restrictions and weather, quick browns work. Before somebody points it out, I am not hanging gun barrels in the shower.
