canvas shooting bag

[jaybird14]

Would a possibles / shooting bag made of canvas be appropriate for the 17th or 18th century?

Thanks!!!
Jay

 

[Artificer]

Cloth was sometimes used for Shot Pouches.


The 2d Virginia Regiment October 12, 1775:


“”¦ Each Company is to draw a sufficient Quantity of Dutch or Russia Drilling to provide Each Soldier with a Shott Pouch with a partition in division in the middle to keep buckshot and bullets separate. Each Soldier to make his own sack and Shot Pouch as near one General Size Pattern as possible”¦”

Info on Russia Drill and Russia Sheeting here: http://www.wmboothdraper.com/Hemps/indexwithnav.html?hemps_index.htm


Virginia Gazette
(Purdie), Williamsburg ,
August 16, 1776. Supplement.
RUN away from the subscriber living on the levels of Green brier, two convict servant men.
One named WILLIAM ROW, 18 or 19 years old, about 5 feet 8 inches high, of a fair complexion,has dark hair, is an artful fellow, and may forge a pass, as he writes a tolerable good hand; had on, when he went away, shirt, drawers, and leggins, of coarse country linen, and took with him a coat and waistcoat of cotton and linen almost white, also a smooth bore gun of the best sort, double breached, which had part of the stock broke off before, a shot bag and powder horn, very much carved, the strap of the powder horn made of striped girting, and the shot bag of blue plush. The other named ISAAC SINGER, 5 feet 4 or 5 inches high, about 25 years old, thin visaged, small made, of a dark complexion, and has very thin whitish hair; had on, when he went away, old leather breeches, a coarse shirt, brown leggins, and old shoes. They are both Englishmen, and took with them a fur hat, besides other things too tedious to mention. Whoever apprehends the said servants, and secures them so as they may be had again, shall have 40s. reward for each, if taken in the county; if out thereof 4 l. or each, paid by ARCHER MATTHEWS.

Information on plush fabric: http://atthesignofthegoldenscissors.com/products/wool-plush


Gus

 

[Artificer]

It seems to me that somewhere I recollect reading some documentation on Virginia Provincial Units using cloth for shot bags/pouches during or just after the FIW, but I can't find it right now.

Of course the problem with cloth for shot pouches was it was far more likely to get soaked in the rain and generally not as tough as leather, so it seems cloth was mostly considered a poor substitute for leather for a shot bag/pouch - until the emergency of quickly supplying troops during the beginning of emergencies or wars.

Gus

 

[tenngun]

Most canvas and corse cloth suttable for a bag was made from linen. Cotton is not as tough pound for pound. If cost is a factor as it is with me, linen runs almost the cost of 5oz leather.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Sounds like a "yes" to me.
They could be rubbed with wax or lard to moisture proof.

 

[Black Hand]

They could be rubbed with wax or lard to moisture proof.

No evidence this was done at the time. Also, lard will eventually rot the material while wax stiffens the material, making it easier to rip.

 

[TNGhost]

They could be rubbed with wax or lard to moisture proof.

No evidence this was done at the time. Also, lard will eventually rot the material while wax stiffens the material, making it easier to rip.

Pine tar?

 

[coloradoclyde]

Boiled Linseed oil

 

[SgtErv]

It would be possible. It depends on where we're talking about. Cloth was less readily available than leather in the backcountry.

In a pinch, sure. Militia muster orders would be a good place to see if cloth would have been acceptable for cartridge pouches.

 

[Black Hand]

Why must it be treated with anything? Just make a cloth bag and use it...

 

[TNGhost]

They could be rubbed with wax or lard to moisture proof.

No evidence this was done at the time. Also, lard will eventually rot the material while wax stiffens the material, making it easier to rip.

Take of Tallow, half a pound,
Hogs lard, four ounces,
Turpentine, two ounces,
New bees wax, two ounces,
Olive Oil, two ounces.

Melt the whole together in an earthen pipkin over the fire, and stir it well while melting....

....With boots thus prepared a sportsman may wade whole days in bogs and swamps, without fear of wet or damp.

From an 18th century Austrailian waterfowler's essay.
http://woodsrunnersdiary.blogspot.com/2012/03/waterproofing-recipi-of-18th-century.html

or

A simple method to create oilcloth, would be to dunk the fabric in straight linseed oil. Effective, but slow to dry. Better yet, cut the linseed oil with turpentine at a rate of two parts linseed oil to one part turpentine. I would suggest that you use a large baking dish, pour the oil mixture onto the fabric, and then roll it in with a three or four inch roller. This will ensure that the oil penetrates the fiber, and minimize the amount of wasted oil. When finished either lay it out flat or hang carefully and allow it to dry completely. In the case of a haversack hang it in such a way as it stays open. Adding Iron Oxide pigment to the mixture will result in a common 18th to 19th century paint. Use one cup of Iron Oxide to a quart of linseed oil.
http://trochronicles.blogspot.com/2011/04/chronicles-project-waterproofing-fabric.html

 

[George]

Other than the two references for cloth shot bags cited by Artificer above, I have this:

From the inventory of Richard Barnes, Senior, Esquire, Charles County, Maryland, Charles County Inventories 1802-1808, 171-176, Taken 23 December 1804, Recorded 23 January, 1805:

"1 Gun powder flask and linen Shot bag, 6$, 1 old Gun 50/100 6.50"

As far as treating a cloth bag to waterproof it, there is this:

"The Pennsylvania Gazette
December 11, 1766

RUN away... a black crape neckcloth, old shoes, a pair of pumps, with square buckles, four shirts, a waxed linen wallet,"

I used beeswax to treat my canvas haversack, and it is perfect for the purpose. It's not too stiff, isn't heavy, doesn't flake and peel, and if it wears thin or cracks, I just hold it near the campfire and it will soften and flow to repair it. Only ever had to do that once, and the bag is now 26 years old, has been treated hard, dragged hither and yon on many hundreds of outings.



Spence

 

[Black Hand]

Still the same question - Why must it be treated with anything?

 

[TNGhost]

Why must it be treated with anything?

To keep your powder and balls dry. :haha:

 

[Black Hand]

Your powder is in a horn/flask and your roundballs are impervious to water, so moisture shouldn't be a issue.

 

[Artificer]

From the inventory of Richard Barnes, Senior, Esquire, Charles County, Maryland, Charles County Inventories 1802-1808, 171-176, Taken 23 December 1804, Recorded 23 January, 1805:

"1 Gun powder flask and linen Shot bag, 6$, 1 old Gun 50/100 6.50"


Spence

My apology to the OP, but that seems to be the earliest documentation of fractional caliber I have ever seen. That is NEAT.

Gus

 

[coloradoclyde]

What about paint?

 

[Artificer]

What about paint?

The British and American Armies were known to have painted the outside of linen knapsacks to waterproof them in the AWI and I think also the FIW period, though I am not as sure about that.

I do know the British Army expected to replace their linen haversacks at least once, if not twice a year, and that was in peacetime garrison when the haversacks would not have seen as hard use as in an operational/combat period. Of course, I suspect part of the reason it was necessary to replace them that often was some rot from foodstuffs that went bad.

Gus

 

[George]

Of course, I suspect part of the reason it was necessary to replace them that often was some rot from foodstuffs that went bad.

I imagine we wouldn't find their haversacks very appetizing. During Arnold's campaign to Quebec, fall of 1775, one crew broke their canoe and had to make pitch to repair it, using resin from pine trees and fat. But they had no fat. Then...

"A lucky thought occurred to the youngest of the company, that the pork bag lay empty and neglected in one of the canoes. The thought and act of bringing it were instantaneous. The bag was ripped, and as if it had been so much gold dust, we scraped from it about a pint of dirty fat."

Spence

 

[Artificer]

Wow. I wonder if they were saving the fat to render it down?

Gus