cap and ball question
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Usually, the larger, the better but ONLY if it doesn't take too much pressure on the loading lever to get the ball into the chambers.
The larger diameter balls will have a wider "flat" cylindrical surface left on their outside and this serves to engage the barrels rifling better than a very short cylindrical surface can.
On the other hand, the loading levers on these guns has limited strength.
The small screws aren't real strong and the soft steel of the reproduction 1860 and 1861 Colts barrels have been known to rip out when their "creeping loading lever" was overstressed.
In any case, the ball MUST be larger than the chambers in the cylinder to adequately seal it and to prevent the loaded balls from moving forward during recoil.
The larger diameter balls will have a wider "flat" cylindrical surface left on their outside and this serves to engage the barrels rifling better than a very short cylindrical surface can.
On the other hand, the loading levers on these guns has limited strength.
The small screws aren't real strong and the soft steel of the reproduction 1860 and 1861 Colts barrels have been known to rip out when their "creeping loading lever" was overstressed.
In any case, the ball MUST be larger than the chambers in the cylinder to adequately seal it and to prevent the loaded balls from moving forward during recoil.
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Both my Pietta .44's take a .451 ball. I have a 58 Remington and a 60 Colt replica. The Ruger Old Army uses a .457 diameter. They should just shave a bit of lead all around while seating into the chamber mouth.I think this is more to keep them from falling out than anything else as they do bump up some at ignition to fill the chamber mouth and if this diameter is at or slightly larger than the groove diameter all will be well.
On my Remington I built a spud that threads through the frame just as does the barrel and aligns a reamer I bought to even and straighten all the chambers and chamber mouths. It worked out pretty well as it took metal from all of them so they have the same mouth diameter now a bit larger than the groove diameter.
Bore alignment was already good in this gun but is ever better now.Same way custom guns are line bored when being fitted with a new cylinder. MD
On my Remington I built a spud that threads through the frame just as does the barrel and aligns a reamer I bought to even and straighten all the chambers and chamber mouths. It worked out pretty well as it took metal from all of them so they have the same mouth diameter now a bit larger than the groove diameter.
Bore alignment was already good in this gun but is ever better now.Same way custom guns are line bored when being fitted with a new cylinder. MD
Interesting from the two above, I use 454.
Do you know someone with a dial caliper?
Measure the bore of each chamber. I chose the 454 mold becasue one chamber was just at or a tinny bit above 451.
I always figured the 451 works well in originals, the 454 in repoduction Colts an Rems and the 457 is Ruger, :idunno:
I've had these revolvers for less than a year so I'm far from haveing alot of experiance with'm but the 454 load easy enough, shave the ring and shoot well.
Do you know someone with a dial caliper?
Measure the bore of each chamber. I chose the 454 mold becasue one chamber was just at or a tinny bit above 451.
I always figured the 451 works well in originals, the 454 in repoduction Colts an Rems and the 457 is Ruger, :idunno:
I've had these revolvers for less than a year so I'm far from haveing alot of experiance with'm but the 454 load easy enough, shave the ring and shoot well.
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You will always get a false size reading when using a caliper to measure a bore. Push an over size ball in,pull it, and then cross mic to get and average of the true diameter.
Mine are both at least 25 years old and Pietta could have opened up the chamber mouths over the years. Use what fits your gun! MD
Mine are both at least 25 years old and Pietta could have opened up the chamber mouths over the years. Use what fits your gun! MD
I use the .454 ball in my Pietta 1851.
The .451's can be a tad small for some cylenders and not shave lead, the .457 can stress the loading lever to much.
The .451's can be a tad small for some cylenders and not shave lead, the .457 can stress the loading lever to much.
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M.D. said:
What he said.
I would add that the biggest ball that isn't difficult to load is often the best choice and that can be figured out without any measuring equipment. And, of course, that any balls you buy will probably not actually measure out to what they are labelled any way. I use .453" balls in the Piettas because that the diameter my Lyman .451 mold produces.
zimmerstutzen
70 Cal.
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As Cythialee pointed out some cylinders (chambers) are a tad big for .451 round balls. I recently purchased a new Pietta and measured the chamber mouths. Each came in at .449, except for one which was slightly out of round and measured .451 across the widest diameter. Not bad, but a concern I didn't expect. Since I follow the practice of only loading five, that one serves as the empty.
As long as pure lead is used, there isn't too much difference in pressure between loading .451 or .454 round balls. .457 round balls are sheering quite a bit of lead. The problem is exaggerated is the chamber mouths are rounded from wear or were rounded/crowned intentionally. Then a thin ring is not cut off, but the ball is swaged down into the smaller diameter chamber.
As long as pure lead is used, there isn't too much difference in pressure between loading .451 or .454 round balls. .457 round balls are sheering quite a bit of lead. The problem is exaggerated is the chamber mouths are rounded from wear or were rounded/crowned intentionally. Then a thin ring is not cut off, but the ball is swaged down into the smaller diameter chamber.
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I use .451 balls in my Pietta 44 1851. I tried the .454 size but accuracy was the same and I felt I was stressing the loading lever with the larger ball.
My Pietta Remington 1858s prefer .454. The ROAs all use .457.
It would be nice if all my C&Bs used the same size but it just doesn't work that way.
Jeff
My Pietta Remington 1858s prefer .454. The ROAs all use .457.
It would be nice if all my C&Bs used the same size but it just doesn't work that way.
Jeff
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I have a recent Pietta 1860 that looks like it might do ok w/ .451, but I will try .454's also. My Pietta '58 target model cut groups 2/3's when I went from .451's and 3F to .454's and 2F. My Uberti Dragoons like .457 as well as the ROA. .454's dropped into the chambers.
finally got to shoot
.451 shot high and left compared to the .454 which held a tighter pattern, i tend to shoot left anyway for some reason
looks like 454 it is...i will be looking for some .457 to see if they will load without too much stress and how they shoot, but for now im happy with 454s
.451 shot high and left compared to the .454 which held a tighter pattern, i tend to shoot left anyway for some reason
looks like 454 it is...i will be looking for some .457 to see if they will load without too much stress and how they shoot, but for now im happy with 454s
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The inconsistency of chamber mouths,even in the
same cylinder has been a bug-a-boo of mine.As was pointed out they are often not only different diameters but also many times not even totally round.
I have opened them up with a split pin and emery paper but I think the spud and reamer set up is more accurate.
A tool steel spud was turned and threaded in the lathe and reamed to accommodate a chucking reamer with a close fit.The barrel was removed from the 58 Rem and the spud was screwed into the frame in leiu of the barrel. Each cylinder hole was lined up with the bolt by cocking and the cylinder was clamped in that exact position.The reamer was chucked up to a hand drive and moved forward into the chamber mouth.The reamer cleaned up and opened each chamber to a uniform depth and diameter.
After all that work I can't honestly say it shoots any better than before but I feel better about it and the balls do load with even pressure. It was more or less and experiment that did not much improve,if any, and already accurate gun.
It does make sense though that the less the balls are distorted when loaded the more potential accuracy should be realized.
Another pet peeve of mine is the damage the loading spud face does to the ball top. I generally remove mine and use a ball cutter in the lathe to make a hemisphere in them so they don't disfigure the ball top at loading. MD
same cylinder has been a bug-a-boo of mine.As was pointed out they are often not only different diameters but also many times not even totally round.
I have opened them up with a split pin and emery paper but I think the spud and reamer set up is more accurate.
A tool steel spud was turned and threaded in the lathe and reamed to accommodate a chucking reamer with a close fit.The barrel was removed from the 58 Rem and the spud was screwed into the frame in leiu of the barrel. Each cylinder hole was lined up with the bolt by cocking and the cylinder was clamped in that exact position.The reamer was chucked up to a hand drive and moved forward into the chamber mouth.The reamer cleaned up and opened each chamber to a uniform depth and diameter.
After all that work I can't honestly say it shoots any better than before but I feel better about it and the balls do load with even pressure. It was more or less and experiment that did not much improve,if any, and already accurate gun.
It does make sense though that the less the balls are distorted when loaded the more potential accuracy should be realized.
Another pet peeve of mine is the damage the loading spud face does to the ball top. I generally remove mine and use a ball cutter in the lathe to make a hemisphere in them so they don't disfigure the ball top at loading. MD
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