cap and ball

[Magnumjh]

Does any of you guys hunt with a cap and ball carbine or rifle or a long barreled pistol. I have a 18 inch barrel 3rd model dragoon with a detachable shoulder stock. With 40gr of powder and round ball it is very accurate to 75 yard.(as far as I ever shot it.) Do you think it would have enough engery for deer and black bear at 75 yards or less.

Jim

 

[cayugad]

I squirrel and rabbit hunt from time to time with a cap and ball .44 caliber revolver. I only shoot 25 grains of powder and a .451 roundball. Your set up is different. I have no idea how far the killing power of the weapon would be.

 

[Huntinfool]

It sounds like it could be done but i say it's a marginal load and cal. for deer and bear size game. in other words I'd limit myself to close perfect broadside shots. If you hit em where they live you'll probably kill ok.

I've known people who hunt with a .22 rimfire and have taken many deer they just make sure they shoot them in the heart area with hyper velocity bullets. They almost always get their deer.

:relax: I know it's not ethical or legal in most areas but these people had permits to kill so many anterless deer for crop damage. They are allowed to shoot with a light at night also.

YMH&OS,
Chuck

 

[Zonie]

I have, somewhere, a article about the velocity which the .44 cal Walker can produce but I don't know where it is at the moment. Sorry. The only thing I can say, is your gun will be producing higher velocity than the Walker due to the added barrel length.
I think there are several things to think about with your pistol.
First, a 30 grain load in a 1860 ,44 cal Army will produce a little over 800 FPS out of it's 8 inch barrel. Assumeing you can get over 1200 FPS muzzle velocity out of your gun, at 25 yards the velocity will be 1056 FPS and the energy will be 356 Ft/Lb.
At 50 yards, velocity will be 967 FPS, energy will be 299 Ft/Lb.
Out to 20-30 yards it isn't real bad but IMO at 50 yards it is pritty low for deer and for bear.

For Muzzleloader Season, some states do not allow multi-shot guns like your pistol/carbine or swivel breech rifles.

 

[Keith]

Sam Fadala "Black Powder Loading Manual" lists a Navy Arms Buntline Dragoon revolver 18" barrel, I think it is your gun. With a RB it lists 45 gr of fffg as maximum. His tests got a velocity of 1269 and 1336 with pyrodex P both with 45 gr. max charges.

For comparison he tested a 3rd. Model Dragoon with a normal 7 1/2" barrel. Max charge listed is 50 gr. with this one. With that charge a ball over fff did 1142 fps, 50gr of pyrodex P got only 908 fps.

With conicals the Buntline shot a 220 gr. bullet to 1114fps with 35 grs. of fffg. The conical has 35 grs. as maximum.

The 50 yard figures for the Buntline shooting the ball are 1009 fps and 1055 fps with 3f and pyrodex respectively. The energy is 319 and 349 fpe at that range. The conical was 1019 fps and 507 fpe with 3f.

Elmer Keith did quite a bit of shooting with the old cap and ball guns. As I recall he found the ball killed better, but the conical penetrated deeper. The ball transmitted more shock, or whatever you want to call it. That is off the top of my head w/o looking it up in his books. :results:

IMO, if this is legal to use on deer where you live 75 yds. is to far. On a good standing broadside shot, I would think 25 yards. I wouldn't shoot a bear with that thing. :m2c:

 

[crockett]

The 44/40 and the 45 Colt both used 40 grains of black- if you have the old balloon head cases and can cram in that much powder. Folks used these guns to kill all sorts of stuff so I reckon the same 40 grains in a cap and ball ought to work almost as good AT SHORT RANGE. The problem is probably more to do with the round ball quickly losing velocity rather the powder charge.
I carry a 36 Navy for rabbits, etc, it is a gun of opportunity. The Colt Dragoon pistols are probably marginal at best for deer. Depends on the size of the deer. I think the DGW Black Powder Annual had an article on hunting with heavy Dragoons several years ago.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Remember too, that when you think 40 grs isn't far from a rifle loading, that a muzzleloading percussion rifle is practically a closed breech. A wobbly design like the Colts loose probably 20% of the gas out the cylinder gap.

If you're set on trying it, you really should go with a conical pistol bullet. (Ooo. I must go punish my tongue for saying that. :boohoo

 

[BrownBear]

I've shot a fair number of deer with standard loads in the 45 LC and the 44 Special (11 and 8, respectively if my logs are right, but I didn't always get things entered). While you are "in the money" in terms of velocity and energy out to around 50 yards, my experience makes me a little suspicious of saying that your getup will perform similarly to the 45 or the 44. I've used round nose, semi-wadcutters, hollow points, and hard cast and soft cast. In general terms round nose killed the deer, but it took them quite a while to figure out they were dead. Hollow point tended to fold closed rather than opening up if the lead moved at all. Soft-cast round nose didn't change shape at all unless they hit a bone. Best performance in terms of quick kills and penetration was with hard-cast semi-wadcutters having large flat noses (meplats).

At your velocities I wouldn't have much confidence in an RB penetrating deeply, or expanding even with pure lead. The conicals available will certainly penetrate deeper due to higher ballistic coefficients, but with their small meplats I wouldn't expect them to kill as quickly as something with a bigger flat nose. I also wouldn't count on much or any expansion with the conicals.

If you could find a conical with a big flat nose, I would expect it to be pretty reliable to around 50 yards. Even with that, I would lace on your tracking shoes. With a standard conical or RB, I'd bring a Serrengetti bushman to help you with the tracking chore on shots that didn't land right or in thick brush.