Cast balls -vs- swaged?

[woodsrunner1778]

A friend of mine and myself are having a debate of wehter cast is better or swaged. What do you guys out use and why? and do you weigh the balls, and how close of a tolerance do you use, do you keep all balls that are within a 1/2 grain less or more?

 

[Stumpkiller]

When I cast balls I weigh every one afterwards. Lets say .530" balls that normally weigh 228 gr. I set up three coffee cans. #1 is for 228.0 +/- 0.2 gr. #2 is for balls that look OK but are low of the 0.2 gr cut off but still float the balance (which works out to 227.4 to 227.8 gr.). The third can is for culls and will be re-melted.

I use the #1 balls whenever possible, the #2 are for "emergency" use and just plinking. I usually cast outdoors in the summer and by the time March swings around I'm into can #2.

 

[JeffinNZ]

Very much like Stumpy I weigh all I cast.

I found my cast shoot at least as well as swaged and probably a little better but are certainly more consistant in weight.

 

[roundball]

A friend of mine and myself are having a debate of wehter cast is better or swaged. What do you guys out use and why? and do you weigh the balls, and how close of a tolerance do you use, do you keep all balls that are within a 1/2 grain less or more?

I use Hornady and/or Speer swaged balls, and I don't weigh them for two main reasons:
1) They're the best in the industry;
2) I can't shoot better than their quality control;

:thumbsup:

 

[Swampman]

Weight isn't important, and weighing balls is a waste of time. Cast and swaged will shoot equally.

 

Weight isn't important, and weighing balls is a waste of time. Cast and swaged will shoot equally.

If you want consistent loads for target competition it isn't a waste of time. For hunting,? I'd agree with you.

 

[Roy]

I'd hope to shoot better in the field than on paper any day.
So 10 grns wouldn't make a difference in where a ball would hit?

 

[jimeckersley]

It all depends on how well you want to shoot and how capable you are of shooting well.

I've used both Hornady and Speer round balls and they are good enough for most use. If you are as fussy as I am about accuracy you'll even weigh the Hornady and Speer balls. I have a Lyman electronic scale and the process goes pretty quickly. I weigh several balls to find the heaviest and set aside any that are more than 1/2 grain lighter. This is true for both swaged and cast balls.

Next, and this will surprise you, lead has a certain "springiness" to it and the swaged balls that I use are consistantly more out of round than my cast balls. I can only attribute this to springing out of round after the swaging process. I have used moulds that cast out of round balls too, but I don't keep them unless it's an odd size.

For the most part, I prefer casting my own.

Their are a few guys I shoot with who say they don't weigh balls or measure to see if they are out of round. I've offered to give them my discards when I shoot against them, with no takers.

 

[roundball]

PS1:
It's one thing to 'mic' a ball sitting at a work bench and declare it's a whisker out of round and assume that will cause some sort of accurayc problem...but I'd bet money that work bench measurement will change to something else as soon as the ball is short started into the bore, and then pushed all the way down the bore, and then seated firmly with a ramrod...

PS2:
If somebody walked up to me and offered to 'give' me some balls so I could use them in a competition against them...I'd suspect something sinister and would pass on it too.

 

[bpbrs]

I use cast and swaged--will weigh a few of the first casted to see if they are a tad tinny or not.
For out of round, and this horse ain't gonna ride no matter how long ya beat em.
"Are those balls out of round before or after they are pounded down a bore"? :rotf:


Bill

 

[CrackStock]

I will use whatever is available. I prefer my own cast because I have used so many of them and the cost is so small. These allow me so shoot a lot more often and more shots when I do. I also enjoy casting them.

I weigh them because I sometimes do not get the mold fully closed and some will be too heavy. Generally easy to spot by the more prominent sprue, but I check as part of my ritual or preparation.

CS

 

[Greenmtnboy]

I shoot Honiday swaged balls and weigh them to the half a grain!!! I have shot my light balls and yes they do shoot off point of aim. very noticeable at longer distance. I keep the light balls for off hand pratice :hatsoff:

 

[woodsrunner1778]

Thanks for your input guys. I shoot a french fusil 62 cal. .600 ball, so I cast my own to save money. I have anothe question if you will permit me. What maker of mold do you recommend Lyman, Rapine?

YMHS

 

[jimeckersley]

As I said in my above post: It all depends on how well you want to shoot and how capable you are of shooting well.

I haven't addressed the dynamics of internal ballistics. That's a whole 'nother discussion.

I have Lee, Rapine, Lyman and NEI molds. As long as they drop balls that are not lop sided, and if a multi cavity mold, the weights are pretty uniform, They all work for me. I do round the edges and polish the sprue cutter on the aluminum molds so they don't gall the top of the mold.

 

[roundball]

I shoot Honiday swaged balls and weigh them to the half a grain!!! I have shot my light balls and yes they do shoot off point of aim. very noticeable at longer distance. I keep the light balls for off hand pratice :hatsoff:

Just trying to understand this...are you saying that 1/2grn difference on a 230grn ball makes it print to a different POI...and you can tell it?
:shocked2:

 

[jimeckersley]

[/quote]
Just trying to understand this...are you saying that 1/2grn difference on a 230grn ball makes it print to a different POI...and you can tell it?
:shocked2:[/quot

The factors are distance, overall weight and where on the axis of the ball the +/- 1/2 grain is located.

On a cannon ball, I doubt that 1/2 gr makes much difference. On a small round ball with an internal air pocket near the outside edge, the ball will fly in a corkscrew motion. The longer the distance, the larger the diameter of the cork screw circle.

 

[harryo]

On a small round ball with an internal air pocket near the outside edge, the ball will fly in a corkscrew motion. The longer the distance, the larger the diameter of the cork screw circle.

This is simply not true. When spin is imparted to a sphere, it will rotate around it's center of mass, not it's center of volume. It doesn't matter if the center of mass is not the center of volume, as with the case of a roundball with a void. The ball will find it's own center of mass, which becomes the center axis of rotation, and will rotate stably around that axis.

You can believe this or not, but it is basic physics and is really indisputable.

 

[roundball]

:hatsoff:
My hat's off to you if you can tell that you just fired a 230grn ball and it printed to a different POI due to it being a 1/2grn light on one side.

I can't imagine ever being able to do that...I have so many other variables in my powder measurement, seating compression, patch, lube, barrel fouling, temperature, humidity, etc, etc, from shot to shot that would mask over anything as insignificant as a 1/2grn weight on a ball that weighed 230grns to begin with.

:hatsoff:

 

[Hoyt]

If they look fairly round..they're goin in the hole.
I used the same selection methods for good rocks to shoot in my slingshot when I was a kid.

 

[Sully]

roundball: As you stated, there are a Lot of variables to consider.Why not eliminate the ones you can,especially for target work ? I tried the swaged balls and started weighing them. All that were within 1/2 grain of the heaviest I kept to use for target work all of the ones that were more than 1/2 grain light I melted down. I now cast my own. Am I a good enough shot to tell the difference between a 1/2 grain light or one that is 2 grains light ? probably not but I still try to keep the variables to a minimum.