Cast or Swaged RB

[Dave]

I've been casting my own Round balls for quite a time, there's not too many places that have .62 cal, plus it's cheaper to make my own as long as I have a good source for lead.
I heard a lot of talk around the range about swaged balls and how perfectly the make them; in a mold under so many tons of pressure that they are pretty much all the same as for air pockets, voids, seams, and spru mark, diameter same thing. I decided to try a box from a known Co. who will be un-named. The day didn't finish that great I had a couple of groups that were ok, but most not that well I shot 25 Balls and the best group I got was 5 at a 4 1/2" shooting at 50 yds.
I took the rest of the balls home a weighed them on a just calibrated ditigal sacle they were advertized to be 34X gr. the 25 I had left, NONE of them weighed within a gr of that last # some were off by a full 6 gr. Did I get a bad box or can this be expected
The gun I use is pretty finikey my favorite underhammer with a twist of 1 in 144" It's a repro.of the Model 1837 Zepher.
What do you guys think What is considered acceptable weight difference between balls.

 

[paulvallandigham]

A six grain difference would be less than 2% of the total weight of a 325 grain ball, but that much variance suggests that there are air bubbles in the ball, and that is NOT GOOD for accurate shooting. I would sort my balls to Plus or Minus 1 grain, and use the rest for plinking.

You also need to measure those balls. I suspect that they are not as round as advertised, either. That can make a difference, particularly in the larger calibers.

You also might try using a thicker patching. Several members here have commented on the fact that thicker patches produces smaller groups.

 

[Zonie]

This has come up several times, usually with the people who cast their own saying things like "My cast balls weigh within 2 grains of each other but those swaged balls are all over the place with their weights."

Knowing the process by which swaged balls are (supposedly) made, I thought O Bovine Scat.
Normally, swaging consists of feeding a solid lead wire into the machine where it is formed using many tons of pressure into the cavities in the machine.
This, according to Hoyle should make very exact, solid balls which should weigh within less than one grain of each other.
In fact, it is basically the same process that modern bullets are made and the ones I've weighed were within less than 0.1 grains. Anyway, back to the muzzleloader balls:

Armed with my knowledge of the process I weighed about 30 Hxxxxxx .50 cal balls and found their weights varied over 10 grains.
I then weighed 30 Sxxxx .50 cal balls and found that they also varied over 10 grains!

By the way, the balls all seemed to measure within .002 of each other and attributed this to the fact that they had rattled around in their boxes during transport.

I have no explanation for the weight variation because I didn't cut the balls up, but something is wrong with the two companies process.

Now, for the way I shoot, a few grains of weight difference doesn't have much effect on my scores, but if your gun is picky, you probably should stick to home cast balls.

zonie

 

[nchawkeye]

I've never weighed a ball...I have shot Hornadys and Speers before in my .54...I make my own on a old Coleman, melt them down in a old can, flux with SnoSeal and my mold is a bag mold (Rapine)...Unless I move to a campfire I guess its about as "primitive" as you can get...I don't understand it but in MY gun the cast shoot better than the store bought ones...Some of the cast balls aren't even that pretty...I figure that when I load them and then shoot them they conform to the size of the barrel...What's that word?? Oblate?? I believe...I have a theory that the cast are a bit softer than the "pressed" so they oblate a bit easier...

There was a Bevel Brothers article a few months back on this, they didn't see much difference either and found that the factory balls did have quite a bit of variance in their weight...

What I have seen is the patch makes a big difference...I don't think most of us give the proper patch enough[url] attention...In[/url] this particular gun if you change the patch the group doubles...

 

[Kentuckywindage]

For accuracy, i used swaged balls. Everytime i load up with cast balls, i have to upmy charge by 20 grains to get them to group ok. With swaged i can shoot lower charges in tghe 40-50grain range and have amazing accuracy. Cast is great for target shooting or if you're getting good groups with them. So far my .45 wants a heavy charge with cast balls so i prefer to just use store bought speer balls to keep me from having to use up so much powder. My traditions on the other hand loves cast and swaged balls. Getting ready to try some 100 yard shots with a new patch/powder combo and see how it does. Printed 5/8" 2 shot group yesterday @ 75 yards. 2 3/4" @ 75 off hand.

 

[Jumpshot]

...I weighed about 30 Hxxxxxx .50 cal balls... I then weighed 30 Sxxxx .50 cal balls...

I'm trying to figure out what those X'ed out words are. Um... Hardcast? Sphere? :grin:

 

I have used both cast and swaged balls--right now I have mostly a supply of Hornady (Hxxxx) swaged balls left. Not being primarily a target shooter, I have not noticed a big difference, but have suspected that the swaged balls may not be as consistent. Target shooters that weigh their balls tell me that there are differences in H-- swaged ones and that they pre-weigh and sort before shooting them at targets--keeping the odd ones for plinking. If you know how to properly cast the balls, that is the cheapest and perhaps best [and most historically accurate] way to go.

 

[BrownBear]

I finally stopped using swaged balls when I noticed that local cost of a box of 54 cal swaged balls was $1 more than that of a Lee 54 cal mould. Comparable accuracy, and the speed and ease of casting 100 balls makes me wonder why anyone would bother with swaged.

 

[colmoultrie]

Well, in my case, one of the reasons is exposure to lead. I have a two-year-old and another on the way, and my wife is VERY cautious about lead exposure. I share many of her concerns, which is why I've never owned a pot.

Others may cast safely and at no hazard to themselves, but it's not for me. Just a personal decision.

 

Well, in my case, one of the reasons is exposure to lead. I have a two-year-old and another on the way, and my wife is VERY cautious about lead exposure. I share many of her concerns, which is why I've never owned a pot.

Others may cast safely and at no hazard to themselves, but it's not for me. Just a personal decision.

You can buy cast balls, too, not just swaged, of course. Personally I think the whole lead thing is overblown (like the asbestos thing), but certainly it is safer, if you do cast, to do it in a well ventilated place. I grew up drinking lead pipe water in lead paint houses and played with lead paint toys [and lead soldiers], shot lead all my life, fish with lead weighted lures or bait, etc...if you believe all the "stuff" out there I should be a bubbling idiot, yet I managed to get a ph.D. and work as a scientist for many years now...I even played with mercury with my bare hands as a child [didn't know better at the time]--but I do not recommend that. I worked around asbestos-laden talc mines in Death Valley daily for 7 months, breathing in clouds of asbestos needles--much more than anyone could possibly get from asbestos ceilings in good repair--I guess time will tell if I get lung cancer [its been 35 years now and still clear]. I am not trying to downplay all environmental risks, but I think the typical California reaction to stuff like lead is insane...my two bits.

 

[paulvallandigham]

i agree with Mike Roberts. The concern over lead poisoning is way overblown. Kids eating lead paint, because their parents were too stupid or lazy or both to remove the paint chips from the walls, or floor where they fell did cause lead poisoning in kids who ate the stuff as infants. But we haven't had lead paint for more than 40 years, and you will be hard pressed to find any apartments in buildings that still have lead based paints on the wall.

I also played with lead soldiers, cast lead balls, played with fishing weights, etc. I washed my hands and face off religiously after any casting session. I managed to get through law school and earn my J.D. I have my critics :surrender: but I am not a blithering idiot as all the chicken little types predict. Ingestion of lead by adults is not nearly the problem it poses for infants. I have a friend who was tested for lead levels in his blood because he worked at a police academy as a range officer. His lead levels were high, so they took him off the range. Several years later, he was tested again, and his lead levels were back to normal.

You can buy casts ball, form Eddie May, or TOTW, and other suppliers. Or you can cast your own. Just do it out of doors, or in a garage that has both the windows and door open. Then take a good shower afterwards and change clothing. You will be fine.

 

[vance burleson]

Has anyone got Eddie May's number.

 

[roundball]

Has anyone got Eddie May's number.

Eddie May Round Balls
159 Ridley Rd.
Chatsworth, GA. 30705
706-581-8225
Best Quality Round Balls, Minnie, Rifle Bullets and Modern Cast Bullets
Please Call or Write to place Order

 

[Shifty]

At last someone answered, I have had a post on here for about 12 days asking for that info(after losing Eddys number) thanks.