Casting the best ball possible

[Cowboy]

A little background, I started casting RB for the fist time last summer. My first casting session was on the 4th of July last year and my last being the 5th of October of last year. I had 14 casting sessions between those dates. Casted a total of about 6,000 balls. I casted .440-128gr., .490-176gr., .535-230gr. I set my standards pretty high from the start, only excepting a ball that was within 1 gr. of actual listed weight. My lull rate was pretty high from the start but by the time I was into my third session I had improved drastically. By then I figured out my best casting temp. and had acquired a very good casting rhythm and was dropping balls right and left. I also numbered each mold with a number and recorded how many balls that mold had made to include each ball weight from that specific mold. I made a notebook that held the casting session date, what caliber's I was casting, how many balls from each mold, and average ball weight that each mold was producing. The end result was that I got to know what each individual mold was capable of turning out to include average ball weights and lull rate percentages for that particular mold. Was really happy with last summers efforts and learned alot through trial and error. Also helped to record what I did, how I did it, and individual mold performance's. I was able to cast alot of balls that were within that 1 gr variance. Had very few that were right on the mark perfect to the grain. My goal for this summer is to use Lyman steel molds and do everything that I did last summer. I will cast .440, .490, and .535. Balls. Will keep a notebook and record everything to include how many each mold puts out and their individual ball weights. I am striving for that perfect ball! I call the perfect ones my Match Grade balls :haha: . I know I am opening up myself for ridicule to some as to why I take all these steps and waist all the extra time, and why does he want that perfect ball and will not settle for a grain off? Will it effect my overall accuracy? Probably not! Am I over thinking this? Probably so!. This is just how my mind works. I want to do the very best that I can possibly achieve in shooting, casting, or anything else related to traditional muzzleloaders or BP shooting. As a note from the movie " The Patriot " A line that Mel Gibson told his boys. " AIM SMALL, MISS SMALL! " Love that movie! Respectfully, Cowboy :hatsoff:

 

[Don Steele]

I could probably write pretty much the same report. I'm also one of those who goes a bit overboard with Q.C. on my castings, but it's part of the fun I get from this sport.
Coupla comments...I've found using a little higher temperature than some folks might suggest seems to work best for me. I'm using a bottom pour Lee pot, and keep it covered. I use a thermometer and watch my pot temperature throughout the casting session. I've learned that PATIENCE, that is to say getting everything up to temperature before casting the first ball really helps my overall quality control and dramatically reduces the out-of-spec. balls I might get to just a few. My acceptance criteria is a little tighter than yours. For 50 cal. I only keep what falls within +/- 0.5 gns. of nominal. For my 40 cal. it's +/- 0.1 gn.
Does ANY of this make a difference in my scores...I doubt it, but as I say...it's just part of the fun. :thumbsup:

 

[Cowboy]

I run my lead at 800 degrees. I also constantly check it with my lead thermometer. I do not bottom pour but have a Lee magnum melter that Is a ladle pot. I think that I am making the best balls capable for each of these Lee aluminum molds. The proof is the recorded weights that each individual mold is producing. I have two molds for each caliber. Each mold is consistent in what it can put out. The equipment can do only what it can do. This summer I am going to do the exact samething that I did last summer with the exception of using Lyman steel molds. Same caliber's and all. I noticed with the Lee aluminum molds the tolerances were off a bit compared to the exact same other mold in that diameter. I know that these Lyman steel molds are of better quality and hopefully tighter tolerances as well. I guess we will see? Respectfully, Cowboy :hatsoff:

 

[fleener]

a couple of things that I think helps me cast good bullets are my Waage pot, it maintains temp. very well. I leave the ladle on top of the mold for a 5 second count, this allows the head pressure to help fill out the mold and reduce air voids. I also have a hot plate that I pre heat my molds on. I am ready to start casting good bullets right from the start.

Fleener

 

[Rifleman1776]

I run my lead at 800 degrees.

Many here would say that is too hot. It is hotter than I care to use. But, if it works for you that is all that matters. You are being studious in your approach to casting. Next step, helping with our problems. :hatsoff:

 

[Billnpatti]

Well, Cowboy, I love the way your mind works because it works just like mine. I don't care what any possible nay sayers might say, what you are doing is telling you something and you enjoy doing it. If you do something and make no notes, it is just fooling around but when you carry out your work in a scientific way and carefully record your work, it is research and when you share it with people of a like mind, that is peer reviewed research. Good for you! :thumbsup:

I find that I get my best and most consistent balls when my lead is a bit above 800 deg., my mold is carefully smoked and preheated and my lead contains just a bit of tin. The tin helps the mold to fill out. While it does make the lead just a tad bit harder, as long as you do not put too much tin in it, it will make no significant difference in how the ball performs in either a rifle or a revolver. As long as you can scratch the lead with your thumbnail, it is soft enough for all black powder uses.

 

[Jim C]

Casting my own will be my next endeavor after I save up the $. Just like you, when it comes to this hobby at least, I'm a perfectionist. I've been shooting a .400 cast ball in my .40 cal that I've been buying from the Log Cabin Shop because they are the only ones that I can find that offers a .400 diameter ball in that caliber and that's what 'ol betsy wants. After finding the perfect load with them I have experienced no flyers, and that's w/o grading them. The casters must be doing something right because that would be difficult to improve on, but nevertheless, I will still try! :grin:

 

[mooman76]

I vary my temp according. It just depends on the mould for me. Some moulds are stubborn and I have to have it as hot as it will get. Everyone is different, they cast a different paces, moulds are different, pots are different so there is no one right way. You have to do what works best for yourself.

 

[Cowboy]

Good for you Jim, The initial cost isn't that bad. All you really need to start is a mold, A pot to melt your lead( not aluminum ) a ladle, and some lead. If you go the route of purchasing a lead melter furnace, A good place to buy from is Midsouth Shooters Supply. They have the ladle, Melter,Mold, and anything else you might want in the future. Can get the lead from roofers, recycle places, or buy from Rotometals. They have 99.96% pure. After 2 or 3 times of casting the equipment will pay for it's self. You are then in the clear to cast your hearts desire. Casting is almost as addictive as shooting! I find it very relaxing and enjoyable. Also adds to the joy of shooting, just knowing you made the balls you are putting down range. Just another aspect of this great hobby and way of life. :grin: Respectfully, Your friend Cowboy :thumbsup:

 

[necchi]

Good for you!
What kind of cull rates you getting?
I remember when I started, there was a learning curve fer sure.
Getting a thermometer was a turning point and having a large supply of the same lead was key. Hotter was indeed better. I don't use the thermometer so much anymore. I look for the iridescent blue colors floating on top and back off a bit, but that can/could change when I get different lead.
I'm content with a cull rate around 10-15%, most of those are my/operator error.

You'll find those steel molds different in the way they heat up and hold the heat, it creates a different rhythm or you need to drop the melt temp a bit. It's a balancing act. I find if I keep the melt temp high the steel can get too hot and I have to pause the session a minute or two for the molds to cool, which is actually fine,, I'm olde,, my hands cramp up when the cast get's into the 200-300 ball range and a little rest helps.

 

[Jim C]

I want to go with a furnace for sure in order to eliminate the need for propane and a burner, electricity is just too convenient, but I still want to hand ladle each pour. From all of my endless reading/research on the subject hand ladling is the best method to produce the best consistency.

 

[Cowboy]

Good for you!
What kind of cull rates you getting?
I remember when I started, there was a learning curve fer sure.
Getting a thermometer was a turning point and having a large supply of the same lead was key. Hotter was indeed better.
I'm content with a cull rate around 10-15%, most of those are my/operator error.

You'll find those steel molds different in the way they heat up and hold the heat, it creates a different rhythm or you need to drop the melt temp a bit. It's a balancing act. I find if I keep the melt temp high the steel can get too hot and I have to pause the session a minute or two for the molds to cool, which is actually fine,,

My cull rate was pretty bad when I first started. It was as high as 50 to 60%. I had all the advice from others and done alot of research to include watching guys cast balls on youtube. Went to the castboolits website and researched there as well. Drove everyone crazy here on the forum asking a zillion questions. My first hands on attempt was a disaster. Messing around with lead temps., no casting rhythm to speak of. Ladle no hot enough. Anything that could go wroung went wrong that first attempt but what kept me going other than I wanted to really learn was to keep driving through my mistakes and learn from them. By the third session I had a nice rhythm going the lead was hot enough and was keeping a constant temperature of 800%. My cull rates dropped dramatically to 10 to 15%. Lost some more of the balls during the weight process. When I have a casting session, I cast for my .45 Cal, 50 Cal., and 54 Cal. I usually cast 4 boxes for each caliber. 400-.440/ 400-.490/ 400-.535, A total of 1200 balls These balls passed the eyeball test looking for any deformities on the balls. Then they get weight with a weight that is calibrated. I aso have a second weight which is also calibrated. I then weigh a ball on both weights to confirm they match. A ball gets weight once, if it's on the money it is a go! If it fails it gets rewayed by the second scale and if both scales come up with the same number, the ball in question goes back to the melting pot.I record what mold is producing what ball to include the individual weights of each. This tells me through a percentage of what each mold is putting out. I keep a running log on the performance of each mold. Using a Lyman Steel mold is definitely going to change temperature variation considerations and will surly effect my casting rhythm. Not a problem, I will have to see how long things hold heat and taylor my casting rhythm accordingly. The end result is that I am hoping to get better balls in weight with the new Lyman steel mold. Respectfully, Cowboy :hatsoff:

 

[mooman76]

Sounds like you have a good handle on it. Some in the beginning fuss around so much trying to make perfect casts, that they never get the rhythm going and get frustrated. While casting, I only cull the obvious an later go through and cull anything else that doesn't look good. I'm not real picky. If it looks good, I shoot it, but that's me, I just shoot for fun. If I was to get more serious about my shooting, I'd be pickier about the RBs I use.

 

[TNGhost]

Appears you have it going your way. :hatsoff: I am jealous of your thoroughness and attention to detail. I'm wired on the other end of the spectrum. I dive in and wrestle with it 'till its going my way, and I get what I'm looking for. Then I forget all the fine points and relearn them during the next session :haha:

I'd have to say that Lee molds are my favorites. I use a bottom pour Lee pot and find that it is easier for me to get in a rythm with that combination.

To me there is no right or wrong way, beyond basic safety, when it coes to casting. Just they way that works for you.

 

[Idaho Ron]

Welcome to the new sport of chasing the dragon. Next for you to get the perfect bullet or Ball you need a hardness tester. Then you can test your projectiles against each other by hardness too. Talk about a cull rate.
Today I casted for 12 hours. I have about 500 bullets. I figure my cull rate I keep is about 30%. I cull for hardness first. Then for weight next and looks last. I used to keep +- .3 grains. Now I do +- 1 grain. I bet I poured over 1500 bullets today. Tomorrow I will be back at it.

 

[Cowboy]

Next for you to get the perfect bullet or Ball you need a hardness tester.

I have heard of a hardness tester. What is the cost of one and who sells them? Would want a quality one at the best price possible. Also I cast with pure soft lead for RB only. Usually 99.9% pure. Would I need a hardness tester for that? I am not interested in shooting conical type bullets but only PRB. So I guess the real question I am asking is, Would I need a Hardness Tester for casting 99.9% pure soft lead balls? Respectfully, Cowboy

 

[M. De Land]

The eye opener for you will be when you keep some of those culls and test them against your perfectly cast balls for accuracy! You most likely will not be able to tabulate much if any difference.
Balls are quite easy to cast compared to large conicals or mini-balls.
When one gets to the place where they can cast 500 grain bullets nearly 1.5 inches long and keep them +/- .5 grains in weight than you have become good at casting.
When casting large bullets dipper casting is easier to get accuracy from than is bottom pour casting for a couple of reasons.
1. The dipper draw is always from the center of the melt which will have the most uniform temperature and dross free alloy.
2. It is much easier to keep the spout of the dipper free of slag and dross thus making a consistent head pressure.
3. The bottom pour changes head pressure with each casting as the alloy reservoir drains and lessons it's mass weight.

 

[Cowboy]

I use a ladle from a open 20 pound capacity Lee Magnum Melter pot. Never casted conical type bullets nor do I think I ever will. I am strictly a PRB shooter. I see no problems with my casting technique's and am pleased with my results thus far. That being said I am not a closed minded fellow and relize there is always a better way of doing things. I will continue strive for that very best ball I can make. It's just a goal I set for myself like all the other goals I still try to achieve. I would like to shoot hole in one groups! No where near that yet! I go to the range 3 to 4 times a week and shoot, shoot, and still shoot! Been doing this since 2007. I consider myself to be a pretty good shot, but not at the level of alot of the members here. I do not know if I will ever reach that goal! But I wont give up and will continue to practice and learn everyday. I set high goals for myself and set out to try to achieve them. I am sure I will eventually meet some of them but on the other end of the coin, I am sure that some I will not! Going to try like hell though! On my soap box again :yakyak: Time to get off it. Respectfully, Cowboy :hatsoff:

 

[Idaho Ron]

Next for you to get the perfect bullet or Ball you need a hardness tester.

I have heard of a hardness tester. What is the cost of one and who sells them? Would want a quality one at the best price possible. Also I cast with pure soft lead for RB only. Usually 99.9% pure. Would I need a hardness tester for that? I am not interested in shooting conical type bullets but only PRB. So I guess the real question I am asking is, Would I need a Hardness Tester for casting 99.9% pure soft lead balls? Respectfully, Cowboy

It might not affect the PRB I don't know I don't shoot them. But I have documented that different shape bullets, and different calibers like different hardness of the bullets. I honestly could see a 45 and a 58 needing a different hardness to achieve the best groups.
Again it might not make any difference and then again it might.
The lead hardness tester will allow a guy to buy scrounged lead of a unknown source and either buy it because it is a good deal or pass because it is too hard for what he likes.
This is the one I got. It is expensive but I can literally read the difference between lead to the half BHN or less. http://cowboybullets.com/Lead-Tester_p_57.html

This tester uses a dial indicator and reads like one. SO the bullets I like are .032 to .035 on the dial indicator. I could try some at .038 or .042 or .021 It allows a very accurate way to customize a load. If a guy is weighing his bullets and sorting and culling for optimal accuracy this is the next step.
Yesterday I poured at least 1500 bullets to get about 500. Today I will be doing the same to get the perfect bullets.

 

[necchi]

Ron I've always been amazed with the long range accuracy you get and how using the absolute best of the cast helps achieve that.
Your cull rate is really high, that's a lot of work for the return.

You say you cull for hardness first.
How can hardness vary within individual bullets when so much time has been spent hardness testing the lead before the melt?

Aside;
It's not going to matter for ball, the accuracy of the sphere and the barrels made for them is in that 100-125yrd range anyway with the rainbow trajectory in all calibers. Sure we can tighten up that 100yrd group eliminating variables, but you know as well I those unique open sight super groups from RB that show up every once in awhile is bravado an BS.