- Joined
- Mar 23, 2005
- Messages
- 357
- Reaction score
- 131
Has amyone owned or used a Caywood English .62 Rifled fusil? I am thinking of buying one for hunting. Any advice would be appreciated.
BPWRL
BPWRL
-
Friends, our 2nd Amendment rights are always under attack and the NRA has been a constant for decades in helping fight that fight.
We have partnered with the NRA to offer you a discount on membership and Muzzleloading Forum gets a small percentage too of each membership, so you are supporting both the NRA and us.
Use this link to sign up please; https://membership.nra.org/recruiters/join/XR045103
Caywood .62 cal Rifle Fusil?
- Thread starter mloader40
- Start date
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2006
- Messages
- 480
- Reaction score
- 661
I just sold one.I'd purchased the gun, because I was so satisfied with a Caywood 12 gauge fowler I owned, that I wanted to thank Caywood for the outstanding job with another order. The fowler was a dream come true, and I thought a rifled version of the same gun might be fun to own.
While the gun was being built I'd decided to gift it to my nephew for a fall hunt. Unhappilly the gun got lost for about a week in transit, and I had to go to a parcel center to pick it up. The closest location to me has something of a crime problem, and trying to inspect a gun under those conditions was like inspecting a bomb. The staff and customers were nervous, and I had the operation manager standing over my shoulder to see if the gun was acceptable and/or restrain me if I suddenly pulled out a fully loaded M16.
The shipping carton was pretty much destroyed, and I could see the rifle had a damaged forestock so I decided to ship it back.
I called Caywood to report the damage, and inform them that the gun was being returned.I followed up the message with email indicating I'd prefer a refund to a repair, and would call him to discuss a resolution. Basically I couldn't wait any longer for a rifle but would like to order another smoothbore.I assumed he was too busy to be bothered with a repair and actually thought he might welcome the chance to simply file a claim with the shipper and issue me a refund.
I called to discuss it, and Danny shouted "I'm sending you a refund" and hung up the phone. It didn't occur to me that he'd hung up. I thought I dropped the call, so I called him back, and started to apologize for losing the connection, when he yelled about what a pain I was, and how impossible I was to deal with.
I mentioned that I thought highly of him and his products, and simply wanted to discuss the situation. I received a tirade about my ingratitude, ignorance and obnoxiousness. It was a sort of Jeykll and Hyde encounter since all my prior conversations had been very pleasant and friendly. I had said so many nice things about his English fowler, that he had some journalist interview me for an article that was being written about him. My comments required no exaggeration because I felt then, and still feel that he builds a good product at a fair price.
Danny scolded me for not keeping the gun through hunting season, and returning it for him to repair later. Before I could explain that I intended to give the gun as a present (and a damaged gun isn't as impactful) he had hung up again. Later that morning I received an email stating that he would send me a refund less 13%. When I mentioned this was inconsistent with his advertised 100% money back satisfaction gaurantee, he degraded his refund offer further by making it contingent upon his sale of the gun. He accused me of being vindicative, with a desire to penalize his small company.
Very far from being vindictive I was a repeat customer, so satisfied with my prior purchase that I wanted to place another order. How that can be construed as penalizing a small company is beyond me. All I wanted was a refund of a damaged product. Having mentioned, that I wanted to order another smoothbore, he could just have easily mentioned that he'd ship me a smoothbored gun and that would have satisfied me. Instead he informed me that he would not accept any further orders from me.
If he'd shown me the slightest courtesy, and discussed it with me rather than yelling at me, he would have had a customer for life. Had he simply laughed and said, "If you'd like a refund, it will be in todays mail...but you can't shoot a refund. You sent me a deposit last winter. Something tells me you didn't spend all that time and money dreaming of a refund. Damn, you want a gun, don't you? I can have another rifle in your hands in a week. Didn't like the rifle? How about another smoothbore? "
Well, far be it from me to think for someone else. I realized before the day was done that my choice was his way, or no way. I paid cash for the gun, thus I would have no recourse to dispute the purchase as I would have had if they accepted credit cards. If you buy something out of state with cash, you're basically on your own hook. If you're unhappy with your purchase, you have no other recourse than that offered by the seller. A 100% money back gaurantee is meaningless if the party making it claims you don't qualify. I live 1,500 miles away, thus I couldn't drive over to his shop to discuss it in person. I recently went pheasant hunting with a friend who mentioned to me that he would never buy a gun from a vendor on the internet that didn't accept credit cards because in the event of your disappointment, you have no means of disputing the purchase or obtaining a refund.
The bottom line is, I realized my only hope of satisfaction was to accept the return of the repaired rifle. While he did a great job on the stock he neglected to install the tang bolt and despite repeated assurances that it was being sent, or had been sent, it took 4 weeks to arrive. It doesn't say much for customer service when you ship a gun without a tang bolt, and can't be bothered to put the missing item in an envelope.
The repaired rifle had several characteristics that I didn't like. The front sight is soldered in place, and I would have prefered a dovetailed front sight. The rear sight was a small brass leaf shaped sight that was drift adjustable. While very nice aestheically, it was too low for target work. I paid for a stock upgrade, and made the mistake of mentioning to Danny that I thought my non upgraded fowler stock had nicer wood. Naturally he lectured me on my ignorance of wood, and told me that perhaps they had given me better wood on my fowler gratis. Danny was clearly angry with me, and I must admit I was more amused than offended by his comments. I have never been angry with the man, and could barely contain my laughter since I am a custom kitchen designer. I have a very good knowledge of wood, and replace more wood on a warranty basis in the course of a year than he purchases.
I didn't particulary like the handling characteristics of the[url] rifle.In[/url] all fairness to Caywood however, I didn't like the rifle for the same reason I wouldn't like an 1100 with a rifled barrel. It's just a shotgun with a rifled barrel.
Had I been able to see and handle a rifled fowler prior to ordering it, I am sure I would not have ordered it just because of the handling characteristics.
In conclusuion, you will either love or loathe your purchase. I hope you love it, because if you're not happy with it you'll be treated to the same sort of discourteous diatribe I received.
Words don't hurt,but you needn't pay almost $1,800.00 dollars to be insulted. Anything can be damaged, but you shouldn't blame the customer for your shippers problem. People can be vexing, but don't advertise a 100% money back satisfaction gaurantee unless you're prepared to honor it. If you forget to do something, like install a tang bolt, ship the item priority mail like you promised to do rather than go hunting. I'd purchased the rifle for a hunt too, and couldn't use it for the intended purpose, not only because it arrived damaged but even after it was repaired couldn't be used because of the missing tang bolt.
I sold the rifle fairly quickly for a few hundred dollars less than I paid for it. Keeping the gun was out of the question for me. I didn't like the way it handled, and it simply served as a reminder of my unpleasant dealings with Caywood.
As a businessman, I can say that it is much easier to continue selling repeat customers than finding new ones. As eager as I am to expand my business, I do everything in my power to retain my existing customer base. They reward me by referring their friends, and promoting the quality of my products while endorsing my ethics and integrity in a manner that simply cannot be advertised. Any form of advertisemnt is suspect as the self interested promotion it is. A personal referal however is a friendly tip and good advice that only a satisfied customer will make. You can neither write nor buy ad copy like that.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
While the gun was being built I'd decided to gift it to my nephew for a fall hunt. Unhappilly the gun got lost for about a week in transit, and I had to go to a parcel center to pick it up. The closest location to me has something of a crime problem, and trying to inspect a gun under those conditions was like inspecting a bomb. The staff and customers were nervous, and I had the operation manager standing over my shoulder to see if the gun was acceptable and/or restrain me if I suddenly pulled out a fully loaded M16.
The shipping carton was pretty much destroyed, and I could see the rifle had a damaged forestock so I decided to ship it back.
I called Caywood to report the damage, and inform them that the gun was being returned.I followed up the message with email indicating I'd prefer a refund to a repair, and would call him to discuss a resolution. Basically I couldn't wait any longer for a rifle but would like to order another smoothbore.I assumed he was too busy to be bothered with a repair and actually thought he might welcome the chance to simply file a claim with the shipper and issue me a refund.
I called to discuss it, and Danny shouted "I'm sending you a refund" and hung up the phone. It didn't occur to me that he'd hung up. I thought I dropped the call, so I called him back, and started to apologize for losing the connection, when he yelled about what a pain I was, and how impossible I was to deal with.
I mentioned that I thought highly of him and his products, and simply wanted to discuss the situation. I received a tirade about my ingratitude, ignorance and obnoxiousness. It was a sort of Jeykll and Hyde encounter since all my prior conversations had been very pleasant and friendly. I had said so many nice things about his English fowler, that he had some journalist interview me for an article that was being written about him. My comments required no exaggeration because I felt then, and still feel that he builds a good product at a fair price.
Danny scolded me for not keeping the gun through hunting season, and returning it for him to repair later. Before I could explain that I intended to give the gun as a present (and a damaged gun isn't as impactful) he had hung up again. Later that morning I received an email stating that he would send me a refund less 13%. When I mentioned this was inconsistent with his advertised 100% money back satisfaction gaurantee, he degraded his refund offer further by making it contingent upon his sale of the gun. He accused me of being vindicative, with a desire to penalize his small company.
Very far from being vindictive I was a repeat customer, so satisfied with my prior purchase that I wanted to place another order. How that can be construed as penalizing a small company is beyond me. All I wanted was a refund of a damaged product. Having mentioned, that I wanted to order another smoothbore, he could just have easily mentioned that he'd ship me a smoothbored gun and that would have satisfied me. Instead he informed me that he would not accept any further orders from me.
If he'd shown me the slightest courtesy, and discussed it with me rather than yelling at me, he would have had a customer for life. Had he simply laughed and said, "If you'd like a refund, it will be in todays mail...but you can't shoot a refund. You sent me a deposit last winter. Something tells me you didn't spend all that time and money dreaming of a refund. Damn, you want a gun, don't you? I can have another rifle in your hands in a week. Didn't like the rifle? How about another smoothbore? "
Well, far be it from me to think for someone else. I realized before the day was done that my choice was his way, or no way. I paid cash for the gun, thus I would have no recourse to dispute the purchase as I would have had if they accepted credit cards. If you buy something out of state with cash, you're basically on your own hook. If you're unhappy with your purchase, you have no other recourse than that offered by the seller. A 100% money back gaurantee is meaningless if the party making it claims you don't qualify. I live 1,500 miles away, thus I couldn't drive over to his shop to discuss it in person. I recently went pheasant hunting with a friend who mentioned to me that he would never buy a gun from a vendor on the internet that didn't accept credit cards because in the event of your disappointment, you have no means of disputing the purchase or obtaining a refund.
The bottom line is, I realized my only hope of satisfaction was to accept the return of the repaired rifle. While he did a great job on the stock he neglected to install the tang bolt and despite repeated assurances that it was being sent, or had been sent, it took 4 weeks to arrive. It doesn't say much for customer service when you ship a gun without a tang bolt, and can't be bothered to put the missing item in an envelope.
The repaired rifle had several characteristics that I didn't like. The front sight is soldered in place, and I would have prefered a dovetailed front sight. The rear sight was a small brass leaf shaped sight that was drift adjustable. While very nice aestheically, it was too low for target work. I paid for a stock upgrade, and made the mistake of mentioning to Danny that I thought my non upgraded fowler stock had nicer wood. Naturally he lectured me on my ignorance of wood, and told me that perhaps they had given me better wood on my fowler gratis. Danny was clearly angry with me, and I must admit I was more amused than offended by his comments. I have never been angry with the man, and could barely contain my laughter since I am a custom kitchen designer. I have a very good knowledge of wood, and replace more wood on a warranty basis in the course of a year than he purchases.
I didn't particulary like the handling characteristics of the[url] rifle.In[/url] all fairness to Caywood however, I didn't like the rifle for the same reason I wouldn't like an 1100 with a rifled barrel. It's just a shotgun with a rifled barrel.
Had I been able to see and handle a rifled fowler prior to ordering it, I am sure I would not have ordered it just because of the handling characteristics.
In conclusuion, you will either love or loathe your purchase. I hope you love it, because if you're not happy with it you'll be treated to the same sort of discourteous diatribe I received.
Words don't hurt,but you needn't pay almost $1,800.00 dollars to be insulted. Anything can be damaged, but you shouldn't blame the customer for your shippers problem. People can be vexing, but don't advertise a 100% money back satisfaction gaurantee unless you're prepared to honor it. If you forget to do something, like install a tang bolt, ship the item priority mail like you promised to do rather than go hunting. I'd purchased the rifle for a hunt too, and couldn't use it for the intended purpose, not only because it arrived damaged but even after it was repaired couldn't be used because of the missing tang bolt.
I sold the rifle fairly quickly for a few hundred dollars less than I paid for it. Keeping the gun was out of the question for me. I didn't like the way it handled, and it simply served as a reminder of my unpleasant dealings with Caywood.
As a businessman, I can say that it is much easier to continue selling repeat customers than finding new ones. As eager as I am to expand my business, I do everything in my power to retain my existing customer base. They reward me by referring their friends, and promoting the quality of my products while endorsing my ethics and integrity in a manner that simply cannot be advertised. Any form of advertisemnt is suspect as the self interested promotion it is. A personal referal however is a friendly tip and good advice that only a satisfied customer will make. You can neither write nor buy ad copy like that.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
Last edited by a moderator:
Mike Brooks
Cannon
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2005
- Messages
- 6,686
- Reaction score
- 33
I hope Danny keeps going with his style of customer service, It gives me alot of customers. :haha:
I could tell you folks some real "Danny Doozies" quite similar to the situation mentioned above, but I won't.
I could tell you folks some real "Danny Doozies" quite similar to the situation mentioned above, but I won't.
Some time back I questioned several gunmakers on the authenticity of their French fusil guns they made, most stood fast for a while untill I offered nmany sorces that did not do favor to the guns they made, then most either failed to respond or changed the tune to claim that they were not really offering a true repro, (inspite of the advertisement claims) kinda a crawdad type action, I'll bet Caywoods response would have been a rowdy one had I got around to them (VBG)
paulvallandigham
Passed On
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2006
- Messages
- 17,537
- Reaction score
- 89
My brother was given the same treatment years ago when he talked to Danny about his guns and the possibility of having a Left Handed fusil made. That is when he called me, and asked if I knew any gun builders, or knew anyone who could refer him to gunbuilders to build him what he wanted. So, I suspect that Caywood sends a lot of business to other builders. Sometimes builders should not run the front office at all, but should stick with what they do best, and let someone else deal with customers. That is hard to do when you are starting out, unless you have a very understanding, and loving wife, but if the business grows, a front office and phone person is a real asset, even part-time.
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2006
- Messages
- 480
- Reaction score
- 661
That's an excellent point Paul, and cuts to the heart of the matter. I think Caywood makes a good product, and I really appreciate Mike Rowe's locks. Very often a creative person resents any criticism of their product, possibly because they mistake it for personal criticism. They are either so deeply offended by anything less than praise, or lack the interpersonal skills to resolve a problem tactfully that a customer sevice issue becomes a confrontation. Perhaps its a variation of tortured artist syndrome that causes a craftsman to resent any discussion of his creation with a mere client.
While I wasn't happy with my purchase, I considered myself a Caywood fan, and was open to discussing the problem. The absolute worst that could have happened from Caywood's perspective would be the issuance of a refund on a returned item. He could have either submitted a claim to his shipper, or reworked the rifle and resold it. He would have satisfied the customer, sold me a another smoothbore, and received all sorts of praise from me for his outstanding customer service. Winning the argument and losing the customer is a poor bargain, but it's his company not mine.
I actually feel sort of bad for the guy. Anyone that angry can't be happy. It's the sort of attitude you'd expect to encounter from someone who hates their job and dislikes their boss. Doing what you love, and working for yourself is only liberating if you have good self esteem and actually do love what you do, otherwise every day is a chore and everyone is a nuissance.
Well, it's Christmas Eve and the last thing I want to dwell on is an unpleasant past experience. Merry Christmas to all, with best wishes for a Happy New Year.
While I wasn't happy with my purchase, I considered myself a Caywood fan, and was open to discussing the problem. The absolute worst that could have happened from Caywood's perspective would be the issuance of a refund on a returned item. He could have either submitted a claim to his shipper, or reworked the rifle and resold it. He would have satisfied the customer, sold me a another smoothbore, and received all sorts of praise from me for his outstanding customer service. Winning the argument and losing the customer is a poor bargain, but it's his company not mine.
I actually feel sort of bad for the guy. Anyone that angry can't be happy. It's the sort of attitude you'd expect to encounter from someone who hates their job and dislikes their boss. Doing what you love, and working for yourself is only liberating if you have good self esteem and actually do love what you do, otherwise every day is a chore and everyone is a nuissance.
Well, it's Christmas Eve and the last thing I want to dwell on is an unpleasant past experience. Merry Christmas to all, with best wishes for a Happy New Year.
I wonder how President Bush likes the one that he is holding in the Caywood advertisment. I bet that one is top notch. I am having one fowler built now and am planning on having another rifle built next year, but I will be sure not to do business with these folks.
Similar threads
- Locked
