Center seam knife sheath

[phoenix511]

Anyone direct me to sources that show a center seam sheath for use with a sash or belt knife, with the stitching at the back, rather than the front?

This should make for a neat appearing sheath, with the front flat and smooth. Many 19th century flat blade bayonet scabbards, especially British, are made this way

I'm interested in 17th, 18th, early 19th century era in the USA, or western Europe. Museums, books, illustrations, pictures, sketches, etc.

 

[LaBonte]

Showing how to attach to a belt or sash...

if the rawhide cover were to be removed inside is a surprise...

I made this sheath to be a "frontier repair" of the original Euro sheath it came with, so I copied the center sheath in the image above of several French originals (thank you Ken Hamilton) and then "repaired" it with rawhide

 

[LRB]

 

[bnail]

wick, that's rather the last word on center seam knife sheaths, but do you mind explaining how you work up the patterns for those things? the tip on my last attempt wanted to curve up a bit. I thnk it was the result of my pattern.
check it out:

 

[LRB]

It would help to see the problem, but I use poster board for my patterns and cut and trim as close as I dare for a minimum spaced fit. I allow 1/8" extra for the seam, and then no more than another 1/8" for room, which when using 6 to7oz leather is a snug to tight fit. I have on occasion failed and gotten the sheath too tight to get the blade to go in. On my regular knives that get center seams, I make an aluminum and wood dummy for the fit and press. On special orders, or orders for customers knives, I allow a tad bit more space in the sheath to try and prevent a failure. When these sheaths are pressed, even though I may have to force the blade in, they will spread in the pressing to have ample room. Go here if you have not already, and you can see my method. http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/24616/t/MAKING-A-CENTER-SEAM-SHEATH.html

 

[bnail]

thanks for the link. very helpful! :thumbsup:

you can see the slight rise to the tip on the pic I posted. and though its a side seam sheath, I,ve had similar issues when trying to stitch a centerseam. regardless. I think yor tutorial will help imensely.
you also answered another question, do you engrave the leather before or after you stitch.
great work, and thanks for sharing :hatsoff:

 

[LRB]

I do the carving as the last step other than dyeing. If you press the sheath as I do, it would wipe out the detail of the carving, and I don't know how one would get the carving positioned in the right place if done before hand. I do the crease around the top before pressing, but not the cross hatching. I use a 1/8" creased border on top, but cut the cross hatching with a grooving tool using a straight edge as a guide.

 

[codymobley]

Wick,
Thanks for sharing the link to your process. It's always interested to see how other people are making items. On the centerseam scabbards I make I use a closing stitch and make a flat seam on the back of the scabbard using the closers awl. To do this I start with a rectangle of leather 1/8" wider than the "circumference" of the blade at its widest point and then start trimming it away when the blade begins to taper to the point. Here are some images of the finished product.

This is the first knife I made and the sheath to match it.

This is what happens when you make the sheath too tight!

 

[LRB]

Looks good. Very interesting. Please tell me more. Your photos are too dark to see details. How similar is your method to a closing stitch in cloth and what does a closer's awl look like? Is this an edge to edge butt joint with the needle working through the very edges of the leather leaving the thread unexposed to wear on the under side?

 

[codymobley]

Wick it is closer to the stoat stitch in cloth.

Yes, it is a butt joint with the thread going through the center of the thickness of the leather with no thread shown on the inside and two stitch lines running parallel to the seam on either side of it. The closer's awl is shaped like a 7 with a gentle curve is is employed by cordwainers, saddlers, etc. to create a stitch that won't rub on the underside (i.e. a flat seam). I'm currently moving, but I will see if I haven't already packed away my awl and post a photo of it.

An inseam awl with the gentle S curve will also work for this purpose.

 

[codymobley]

I found a photo that will work:

The awl closest to the split sheath is the closer's awl (I have it in a pegging awl haft). This photo also shows the method of construction.

 

[LRB]

Excellent. Many thanks, I will have to try that.

 

[LaBonte]

Here's a drawing of the method -

I've used it a lot and use a modified curved awl blade and two curved harness needles or hog bristle brushes. Al Stohlman's book "The Art of Hand sewing Leather" Goes into a bit more depth.

There's also a hidden thread version of the stitch in Stohlman's book that is really neat.

 

[LRB]

Thankyou both. Both show exactly what I though it was all about. Now, I just have to try it.