chain fire evidence

[t.l.a.r. eng]

Was shooting the .44 Remington at the range and was trying different loads as I don't often shoot this one, when the second or third shot seemed stouter than the others.
The cylinder to the left of the one in line with the barrel went off at the same time. Left nothing more than a lead scuff mark on the frame.
Upon inspection, the cap was missing from that cylinder and it was laying on the bench in front of me in plain sight in perfect shape.
Still leads me to believe that chain fires happen mostly if not all from the nipple end of the cylinder. :hmm:

 

[necchi]

Now that's a neat experience and some good info to share,
Especially about how the side cylinder did go off and the result,,
Thank you for posting about it, :hatsoff:

 

[Paul_R]

Still leads me to believe that chain fires happen mostly if not all from the nipple end of the cylinder. :hmm:

It does tend to bolster that argument. Like they say, empirical evidence trumps all... :thumbsup:

 

[slippery50]

Was shooting the .44 Remington at the range and was trying different loads as I don't often shoot this one, when the second or third shot seemed stouter than the others.
The cylinder to the left of the one in line with the barrel went off at the same time. Left nothing more than a lead scuff mark on the frame.
Upon inspection, the cap was missing from that cylinder and it was laying on the bench in front of me in plain sight in perfect shape.
Still leads me to believe that chain fires happen mostly if not all from the nipple end of the cylinder. :hmm:

Yep, that's were & how they happen. At the rear, not the front. Now you know.

 

[George T.]

I agree especially when you shave a lead ring when seating the ball. At times I do grease the front but only to soften the powder residue! Geo. T.

 

[MikeEasy]

"the cap was missing from that cylinder and it was laying on the bench in front of me in plain sight in perfect shape."

Was the primer material in the cap still unexploded?

So did you never put that cap on the cylinder or was that cap blown off the gun and onto the bench when the "wrong" cylinder fired?

 

[t.l.a.r. eng]

The cap on the bench was just like new, in fact it was used during the next reload and performed fine.
I was using up some Winchester #11 caps that are too big for all of my cap and ball revolvers so they needed pinched to stay on, apparently that one wasn't pinched enough.
It was just dumb luck it fell off on the bench in front of me to be discovered.

 

[MikeEasy]

I don't see how this incident supports either hypothesis (that chainfires are initiated from the nipple end or from the cylinder throat).

And you didn't answer my other question:

• did you fail to put the cap on initially or
• did the cap fall off inadvertently while you were shooting or
• was the cap blown off the nipple by the chainfire?

 

Sounds as if the cap was not pinched enough, they can be springy little buggers.

That's exactly why I handfit nipples to the caps, to ensure a snug fit.

 

[t.l.a.r. eng]

I have to believe the cap fell off while firing the first couple of shots as the loaded chambers still had caps on them.

As stated these were bigger caps I was trying to use up by pinching them to stay on the nipples.

Normally use Remington #11, as they are slightly smaller than the Winchester #11s.

 

[crockett]

I've noted this before but I'll repeat it any way. We sort of did a poll a year back and a disproportionate amount of chain fires occurred at the start of a day's shoot- on the first cylinder full of loads. Almost (or all- I forget) of these folks said they did not burn off any oil, etc on the nipples by first snapping a cap over an unloaded cylinder. The feeling was that the recoil knocked off the caps and the exposed nipples resulted in a chain firing.
One guy loaded up a cylinder (out of the frame) but no bullets- just powder and wads. On uncapped nipples he very quickly drew a propane torch across them and that quick pass was enough to explode all the chambers.
When I was a kid the deal was you put a lube (Crisco) over the ends of the cylinder to reduce fouling and prevent a chain firing but it is looking more and more like the great majority of chain firings come from poorly fitted caps. When I started as a kid I used oversized caps that you squeeze from round to oval and then they would stay in place. Fortunately I never had a chain firing.

 

[t.l.a.r. eng]

crockett, you may have hit the nail right on the head. That was the first cylinder loading of the day and being a tightwad, I always thought it a waste of caps as there is but the slightest oil film left, but after the first firings there is usually some dry soot for the caps to grip.
Normally I use caps that fit and don't need to be squeezed to get them to stay on. But this day was different.
Will definitely pay attention to that the next time out. Thanks.

 

[Mulebrain]

If proper ball size is used, that is the only other way to set off the powder at the nipple.

 

[bigted]

initially I began a deep laugh at the thought of using a propane torch to light off all the chambers but in thought I cant see how this was accomplished nor the why of it unless just to see if a tightly held down cylinder would fire with such a devise. was this in the revolver or held down in some other fashion?

I also agree with the snapping of two times per chamber with caps to ensure a dry and slightly sooted nipples to cling to the caps more tightly. I have never had a revolver multi shoot on me ...[chain fire]... since a kid with that old worn out model '60' that would shoot multi times with every yank of the trigger. but in hind sight I now know the thing was bubba'd in fine fashion and the old man was correct in making me sell the darn thing.

I am interested in the particulars tho in the propane incident ... maybe I missed part of this post but please do share the details... :hmm:

 

[MikeEasy]

I agree especially when you shave a lead ring when seating the ball. - Geo T

This guy believes quite the opposite: Preventing chain firing by John L. Fuhring

Of course, if we did by some accident determine the true cause(s) of cross-firing and other phenomena then there would be far less discussion on these forums. So maybe it's best that no one ever, ever, ever do a scientific experiment :wink: .

 

[crockett]

On the propane torch test, there was some question about how much flash would be needed to fire an uncapped nipple. Some felt that you really needed the full blast of the cap to do the job. In any event (it wasn't me) some guy attached the cylinder to a threaded rod of some sort and very quickly passed the propane torch over the nipples at a right angle- trying to create a similar event to the flash of a just fired gun. He claimed all the uncapped chambers fired.
NOW...that is just the opposite of that article which was posted- the guy says he had half the chambers uncapped and couldn't produce a chain firing, he claimed that by using lube, etc when you reload little grains of powder get stuck and ground into dust in front of the bullet and this creates a path for a chain fire if the balls don't fit correctly.
I've always felt there are likely several ways a chain firing can occur. There is the famous Sam Clemens/Mark Twain account of all cylinders on a pepperbox going off at the same time. It seems that on a pepperbox ground powder in front of the ball, in all bores of the gun? The gun was probably loaded dry so that seems unlikely. It seems poorly fitted caps might be the culprit. The other thing is that a lot of chain firing are at the start of the day, the chamber ought to be pretty clean, the chance of powder sticking at the top of the cylinder and getting ground into a fine dust seems less likely than later on- which doesn't make sense if a lot of chain firings at on the first load of the day.
One guy, I think WVHillybilly was his name, felt that if the balls were poorly fitted the recoil could knock them forward and expose the powder- yet another possibility.

 

[bigted]

tis good brain candy to contemplate tho! :thumbsup:

I only knew of my experience with such and the cylinder there had had bubba get to it trying I spose to roach the diameter to all the same ... all that was accomplished however was to ruin a fine old revolver ... then this kid to pick it up and scare his pap near to death with the lead smears and deposits on the side of the revolver.

ahhh the ignorance of youth ... its true that god protects the young and the foolish ... for a spell anyway. ... :idunno: ... :shocked2: