I have an older Navy Arms Zoave rifle and it has that 3 leaf flip up/down rear sight. Is there a practicle replacement for them available these days? The rifle shoots well but that flippin' rear sight just does not work for me.
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Change Zoave sights ?
- Thread starter PaulN/KS
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Flash Pan Dan
45 Cal.
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The short answer is no. That being said, if you don't mind loosing any semblance of HC than you can have any good gunsmith put any sight you want on it.
Those Navy Arms Zoave rifles are very good shooters with round ball and decent sights.
If you put a peep sight ( Lyman 57 type ) and a good front post, you will shoot one hole groups at 50 yards.
The minie ball is ok, but can't compare to round ball.
You will need a .575 round ball, and .015-.018 lubed patch, also a lubed felt wad over the powder helps keep groups tight.
Fred
If you put a peep sight ( Lyman 57 type ) and a good front post, you will shoot one hole groups at 50 yards.
The minie ball is ok, but can't compare to round ball.
You will need a .575 round ball, and .015-.018 lubed patch, also a lubed felt wad over the powder helps keep groups tight.
Fred
Misplaced Rebel
36 Cal.
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I agree and disagree here, both from experience.
A: Repro rifle musket/rifle sights such as those that are factory standard on guns such as the Zoli, Euroarms, and Armi Sport offerings leave much to be desired. The notches are often much too wide, and the sights lack stability under recoil, etc. I am looking into getting a custom rear sight attached to my M1855 rifle musket for exactly this reason. I would talk to Lodgewood Mfg. in Whitewater, WI about getting better sights for your rifle- they have some excellent custom sights by Rich Cross, so I am told, and offer excellent gunsmithing services.
B: In my experience, I have had no difficulty attaining excellent accuracy with Minies out of a rack grade rifle musket. In my personal opinion, one must simply account for a different- but not more tedious- set of factors to attain good accuracy with a Minie ball. In fact, it may be as simple to say that what makes a good Minie makes a poor roundball. For example, a Minie ball capable of producing good accuracy must be made of nothing but soft lead- both for best terminal ballistics and for the purpose of best engaging the rifling. PRB, for its part (as it will never likely 'contact' the rifling, as it is similar to a saboted projectile when contained in a patch)can be made of much harded material of varying compositions.
Minies must be appropriately sized- which if you cast your own or have them made for you (as I do)is not difficult- to the bore of the rifle in question. Much like finding a pet load for a roundball gun, one must fiddle to find the right sizing for the Minie, as well as the most suitable style. My gun prefers most anything heavy sized to .002 under bore diameter. With a roundball gun, a similar process is used when determining proper patch/ball sizing combination.
Similar steps exist for the right lube, powder charge, wads (if any) and etc. It is not- in my opinion- any more difficult or some such, or even less likely to produce accuracy, when making loads for and using Minie balls.
For that matter, I did very well in a competition this weekend here in WI where I shot my rifle musket (crappy sights and all) against almost exclusively PRB shooters, placing 3rd in the prone buffalo 5-bull shoot (M-9 target) using a .576 Rapine 575-510 Minie on top of 45 grains of Goex 3F, under less than ideal conditions (it was raining, the prone rest was too low, and because of that, I was forced to shoot off of my collar bone- it hurts... :cursing: ). The point is, don't discount the Minie ball out of hand- it's a different road, but we all know what Robert Frost had to say about "diverging paths" and so on. :wink:
Just my 3 cents' worth, and sorry for the hijack.
-Chris
A: Repro rifle musket/rifle sights such as those that are factory standard on guns such as the Zoli, Euroarms, and Armi Sport offerings leave much to be desired. The notches are often much too wide, and the sights lack stability under recoil, etc. I am looking into getting a custom rear sight attached to my M1855 rifle musket for exactly this reason. I would talk to Lodgewood Mfg. in Whitewater, WI about getting better sights for your rifle- they have some excellent custom sights by Rich Cross, so I am told, and offer excellent gunsmithing services.
B: In my experience, I have had no difficulty attaining excellent accuracy with Minies out of a rack grade rifle musket. In my personal opinion, one must simply account for a different- but not more tedious- set of factors to attain good accuracy with a Minie ball. In fact, it may be as simple to say that what makes a good Minie makes a poor roundball. For example, a Minie ball capable of producing good accuracy must be made of nothing but soft lead- both for best terminal ballistics and for the purpose of best engaging the rifling. PRB, for its part (as it will never likely 'contact' the rifling, as it is similar to a saboted projectile when contained in a patch)can be made of much harded material of varying compositions.
Minies must be appropriately sized- which if you cast your own or have them made for you (as I do)is not difficult- to the bore of the rifle in question. Much like finding a pet load for a roundball gun, one must fiddle to find the right sizing for the Minie, as well as the most suitable style. My gun prefers most anything heavy sized to .002 under bore diameter. With a roundball gun, a similar process is used when determining proper patch/ball sizing combination.
Similar steps exist for the right lube, powder charge, wads (if any) and etc. It is not- in my opinion- any more difficult or some such, or even less likely to produce accuracy, when making loads for and using Minie balls.
For that matter, I did very well in a competition this weekend here in WI where I shot my rifle musket (crappy sights and all) against almost exclusively PRB shooters, placing 3rd in the prone buffalo 5-bull shoot (M-9 target) using a .576 Rapine 575-510 Minie on top of 45 grains of Goex 3F, under less than ideal conditions (it was raining, the prone rest was too low, and because of that, I was forced to shoot off of my collar bone- it hurts... :cursing: ). The point is, don't discount the Minie ball out of hand- it's a different road, but we all know what Robert Frost had to say about "diverging paths" and so on. :wink:
Just my 3 cents' worth, and sorry for the hijack.
-Chris
59sharps
40 Cal.
S & S sells a blank L leaf to fit the sight mount. you can notch or drill a peep hole in the L (long and short legs). one for 100 yrd one for 50 or what ever you want it set for. It is still a flip but better than the 3 leaf it comes w/.
Missplaced Rebel,
Excellent input, and valued information.
With the existing military type sights, can you get the Zoauve rifle to hit right on at fifty yards, or does it shoot high?
I have shot mine with sized minies to .002", and they do shoot well.
Like any gun if you wish to shoot precisely, you must be consistant.
Thank you for your experience.
Fred
Excellent input, and valued information.
With the existing military type sights, can you get the Zoauve rifle to hit right on at fifty yards, or does it shoot high?
I have shot mine with sized minies to .002", and they do shoot well.
Like any gun if you wish to shoot precisely, you must be consistant.
Thank you for your experience.
Fred
59sharps
40 Cal.
It should shoot high at 50 first sight is 100yrd site second is 200 third leaf is 300. if I remember correctly.
Misplaced Rebel
36 Cal.
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Hey all,
Well, on the question of sights, let me offer this:
Standard military leaf sight configuration for the time, as on the Zouave, 1861, 1855 and Mississippi variants is as follows- leaf 1, 0-200 yards, leaf 2, 300 yards, leaf 3, 500 yards.
In order to get these weapons shooting POI/POA with a factory rear sight, one must add material to the front sight, during which you can adjust for windage if necessary by changing the position and thickness of the blade.
-Chris
Well, on the question of sights, let me offer this:
Standard military leaf sight configuration for the time, as on the Zouave, 1861, 1855 and Mississippi variants is as follows- leaf 1, 0-200 yards, leaf 2, 300 yards, leaf 3, 500 yards.
In order to get these weapons shooting POI/POA with a factory rear sight, one must add material to the front sight, during which you can adjust for windage if necessary by changing the position and thickness of the blade.
-Chris
SamTex1949
32 Cal.
59sharps said:
S & S ??? More info please, I don't recognize or find them.
S&S Firearms...
http://www.ssfirearms.com/
http://www.ssfirearms.com/
Last edited by a moderator:
Definitely interesting what a difference the minie size makes. In my Navy Arms/Zoli Zouave the Lee .578s shoot very nicely and the .575s were just spewing everywhere. Remarkable.
Anyway, re: the sights - the front really could be 1/8" higher and the rear tends to flip to another setting every time I shoot it. Other than that they're great (ha!). I did some searching and a lot of people basically get some other sight and put in a dovetail in the front so they can install it and file until they get what they want. I have a friend with one who soldered a little bit of rod on top of the front sight. I haven't done anything permanent with mine yet.
Anyway, re: the sights - the front really could be 1/8" higher and the rear tends to flip to another setting every time I shoot it. Other than that they're great (ha!). I did some searching and a lot of people basically get some other sight and put in a dovetail in the front so they can install it and file until they get what they want. I have a friend with one who soldered a little bit of rod on top of the front sight. I haven't done anything permanent with mine yet.
59sharps
40 Cal.
some thing else you can try. JB weld use it to build up the front site. I used it t0 build up a sight about a 1/16th". for the rear sight. remove the screw that holds the leafs in squeeze the top of the sight base a little so the leafs fit tighter. You can file the stock leafs down and recut the notch or drill a peep. I did that to my sons Richmond and his colt 2 band w notch he did not like the peep. I went w/ the L leaf w peep on mine.
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My friend bought an Enfield and we couldnt print in the black at 25m on a 6 o'clock hold on the pistol card. I made a higher foresight like this:
1) Cut a bar down to the same size as the foresight base
2) make a saddle on the end to go over the original foresight
3) cut the bar down to foresight blade thichness with a bench grinder and files
4) Having worked out the height I want to raise the original, measure from the foresight blade height and add the raise amount
5) cut to height, file to profile and cold blue
6) Clean with acetone and fix on to the original foresight with 5 minute epoxy.
1) Cut a bar down to the same size as the foresight base
2) make a saddle on the end to go over the original foresight
3) cut the bar down to foresight blade thichness with a bench grinder and files
4) Having worked out the height I want to raise the original, measure from the foresight blade height and add the raise amount
5) cut to height, file to profile and cold blue
6) Clean with acetone and fix on to the original foresight with 5 minute epoxy.
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