Changed from Pdex to Black

I've only been on this forum a very short time but I've learned a lot. I kinda quit shooting my GPR several years ago because I could never get it to shoot accurately. I was using Pdex due to B/P being so darn hard to find around here.After reading all that people had to say about the difference between the two I decided to try B/P. The first time I tried it I figured it was just a fluke that it grouped so well. Now after 3 shooting sessions I know its no fluke this rifle is scary accurate with B/P. My last 3 shots in my last session at 85 yards were all touching in a group that measured 3/4"!!! I'm sold, its B/P forever for me. Thanks a lot for the advise. Frank

 

[rabjr]

:grin: :thumbsup:

 

[zrifleman]

Too bad more Pyrodex fans don't listen and believe what you say.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Well, there you go.

Glad it worked out for you.

 

[Josh Smith]

Too bad more Pyrodex fans don't listen and believe what you say.

Hello,

I'm far from a Pyrodex fan, but will use it first if it's all I get to choose from.

Thankfully, I got my hands on a pound of Goex 2Fg and am enjoying it - a LOT.

Still got to take a Thursday evening and go over to the gunstore that's open that day only for two hours. They carry real black, and it's 15 minutes from me.

Just hope he stays open. It's a retirement thing for him and he's really not trying to make money, from what I know.

Really don't want to go back to Pyrodex.

Josh

 

[daperdon69]

:hatsoff: :hatsoff: :v One more vote for real black powder.

Tradegunner

 

[kelleyjk]

Waugh,

Welcome back and welcome back from the dark side :applause:

 

[ohio ramrod]

pyrodex is more susseptable to deteriation with moisture over time than black. As long as black is kept dry and not exposed to high temps it will reain consistent for decades.

 

[SgtSchutzen]

I`m a fan of real BP, and have no thoughts of switching as long as I can still get ahold of the stuff.
I started out shooting Goex years ago with my first muzzleloader. At one point way back when, I fell prey to someones story about "Pyrodex being better" because it fouls less and I wouldn`t have to swab my bore every few shots while shooting. On that point I agree. But I never could get pyro to ignite as fast, or as reliably as real BP.
I also belong to the group that believes the fouling from Pyrodex is more corrosive, and harder to completely remove than black powder fouling. My Mountain Rifle has a small slightly pitted section of bore that in my opinion is because of Pyrodex.
My guns will continue to be fed real BP. The pyro takes a second spot as a workable replacement if I can`t get ahold of any "real powder".

 

[robtattoo]

Just a thought; Being that Pyrodex is a little 'hotter' than BP, do you not think that by using the same load, you've reduced your muzzle velocity slightly & that's what's givng you the accurracy?
Try the Pyrodex again, but reduce your load by about 10% & I'll bet you get similar results :wink:
Pyrodex gives exactly the same accurracy as BP. The ball & barrel don't know what propellant you're using, you just have to find out what the correct load is, same as with Black.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Just a thought; Being that Pyrodex is a little 'hotter' than BP, do you not think that by using the same load, you've reduced your muzzle velocity slightly & that's what's givng you the accurracy?
Try the Pyrodex again, but reduce your load by about 10% & I'll bet you get similar results :wink:
Pyrodex gives exactly the same accurracy as BP. The ball & barrel don't know what propellant you're using, you just have to find out what the correct load is, same as with Black.

That's not going to fly. Swiss is hotter than Goex, and it's more accurate with equal loads.

 

[robtattoo]

Just a thought; Being that Pyrodex is a little 'hotter' than BP, do you not think that by using the same load, you've reduced your muzzle velocity slightly & that's what's givng you the accurracy?
Try the Pyrodex again, but reduce your load by about 10% & I'll bet you get similar results :wink:
Pyrodex gives exactly the same accurracy as BP. The ball & barrel don't know what propellant you're using, you just have to find out what the correct load is, same as with Black.

That's not going to fly. Swiss is hotter than Goex, and it's more accurate with equal loads.

Sorry, but you're mistaken. It's not inherrently more accurate, it's granulation is just a lot more consistent, meaning that when repeatedly measured by volume, you'll have a better chance of getting the same weight of powder time after time. This in turn reduces the chances of load variation, creating smaller groups.
In my .54 GPR, off the bench, I can shoot a one hole group using a load of 90gn of FFFG Goex. The same load of Pyrodex P gives me a 1-½" group. However, when I was working up my loads, I found that 80gn of Pyrodex P gives the exact same group as 90gn of Goex, n exactly the same place on the target. One ragged hole, 2" high at 12 o'clock. The best I can tell without using a chrono, is that by reducing the load or Pyro, I'm closer to muzzle velocity of the Goex.

 

In reply to the comments regarding using different loads of Pdex to achieve the same results as B/P. I have been all over the range of powder charges with Pdex,from 50 to 120gr in 5gr incriments. At no time did the Pdex come close to the accuracy and repeatability that B/P does.I'm not a scientist but am a very experienced shooter and know how to make an informed decision. I have a load that works extremely well now after several years off and on trying to get Pdex to work. I'm a happy man and can now get back to the reason I bought my GPR and that is to hunt with it. Thanks for the comments. Frank

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but I don't think Pyro is used in high level target competition.

 

[William O.]

I've only been on this forum a very short time but I've learned a lot. I kinda quit shooting my GPR several years ago because I could never get it to shoot accurately. I was using Pdex due to B/P being so darn hard to find around here.After reading all that people had to say about the difference between the two I decided to try B/P. The first time I tried it I figured it was just a fluke that it grouped so well. Now after 3 shooting sessions I know its no fluke this rifle is scary accurate with B/P. My last 3 shots in my last session at 85 yards were all touching in a group that measured 3/4"!!! I'm sold, its B/P forever for me. Thanks a lot for the advise. Frank

:thumbsup:

 

[jaw69]

Very few if any competors at Friendship use pyrodex Walk by the loading benches to see all goex and swiss

 

[jtmattison]

Glad to hear you're back to shooting it again. Too bad it took so long. Enjoy!

HD

 

[Bill Hall]

Pyrodex gives exactly the same accurracy as BP. The ball & barrel don't know what propellant you're using, you just have to find out what the correct load is, same as with Black.

I agree and I think you're on to something Rob. No type of powder is inherently more accurate than another, they just have different variables to contend with.

A slight variation of Rob's theory, I'm thinking you either lowered, or increased, your velocity with the powder change. In doing this, you accidently found the "sweet spot" in velocity where your rifle is the most accurate. If you're still interested in using pyrodex, I also believe you can fiddle with the load until you match the accuracy you have with black powder. Something to think about in case you have trouble obtaining black powder again.

Personally, it would ERK me to no end to use pyrodex in my guns, but I also recognize that's just my own preference, and I hope I would never let my own bias be an argumentive point in convincing a person what he should, or should not use. :wink:

Glad to so hear of your success with the target. Bill

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Very few if any competors at Friendship use pyrodex Walk by the loading benches to see all goex and swiss

Yes, the point I was making. If Pyro is as accurate as BP. It would be used in competition. Especially with with the cartridge long distance group.

 

[pchwcf50110]

I`m a fan of real BP, and have no thoughts of switching as long as I can still get ahold of the stuff.
I started out shooting Goex years ago with my first muzzleloader. At one point way back when, I fell prey to someones story about "Pyrodex being better" because it fouls less and I wouldn`t have to swab my bore every few shots while shooting. On that point I agree. But I never could get pyro to ignite as fast, or as reliably as real BP.
I also belong to the group that believes the fouling from Pyrodex is more corrosive, and harder to completely remove than black powder fouling. My Mountain Rifle has a small slightly pitted section of bore that in my opinion is because of Pyrodex.
My guns will continue to be fed real BP. The pyro takes a second spot as a workable replacement if I can`t get ahold of any "real powder".

i shot Pyrodex for the first ten years of my muzzleloading. when i started as a teenager i didn't know anybody who shot ML's so all i had to go by was experts in magazines and Hodgdon promotional literature. everything that i ever heard or read about blackpowder was that it was terrible compared to Pyrodex. when i tried real blackpowder for the first time back in '97 i realized i had been lied to. BP is so consistant, far easier to clean up, and that wonderful instant ignition.
one of my big "discoveries" after i switched was that the rifle no longer hangfired when left loaded for a few days. in the begining of my ML hunting if i went on a three day hunt, my rifle hangfired when emptied at the conclusion of the hunt when loaded with Pyrodex. luckily it never cost me a deer/elk but i quickly learned to shoot out the load at the conclusion of the day. i thought the daily shoot out/cleaning every evening was just part of the experience. it got tiresome fast. when i switched to BP i tested this aspect throughly before trusting it. i have no doubt that if i load up for hunting on Monday and don't get a chance until Friday that rifle is going off just like i loaded it two minutes ago. until there is a substitute propellent that performs exactly like BP but is like smokeless powder as far as lack up clean up i will shoot BP.