choosing a lock

[kingsax26]

have decided to try my hand at building my own rifle....I picked up a really nice CVA bobcat for 20$$ and figured it would be a great place to start. But im not sure of an appropriate lock...I just plan on building a gun that shoots ..nothing more. I was thinking of going with a smaller size lock....just because its a small rifle...and suggestions? I was thinking of going with a lancaster style stock....my main goal is to learn the basic mechanics ...so hc/pc..is out the window.

 

[LRB]

Take a look at Chambers locks. They are the best this side of custom. Most Davis locks are pretty good. L&R locks are in third place, but most are decent enough. Chambers and Davis back theirs up very well, with Chambers being excellent on service if ever needed.

 

[Ft. Jefferson]

So far, all you seem to need is a gun that goes bang!!! Your own build!, down to that level, is insane!!! Are you really serious, or not? If you are, please stand by, if your not, please rethink your position in this matter. Good day, Buzzard

 

[gunmaker43]

Cap or flint ? Either way a Chambers would be my 1st choice. The small Siler either one, or late Ketland flint. ..Tom :2

 

[sleeperNY]

Bryon, if the lock is a percussion and it works why not use what it already has? If it is flint I would get the small siler from Chambers. The Lancaster style is a great rifle if you ask me. Remember Bryon I am always willing to help if I can.

Jim

 

[Birddog6]

I am a big fan of Chambers locks, however, if you are going to stay Percussion, just about any lock will fire a cap, including the one you have.

But if you want to build a rifle with a slimmer lock in flintlock, I would go with a Chambers Small Siler lock. Great locks & Lifetime Warranty on them....... Or if you want a little different look, the Chambers Late Ketland is also a good lock, as well as a Dale Johnson lock. Just depends on the size & shape of the lock you want. :idunno:

But you can copy the lock pages out of a TOW catalog & cut the copy out with scissors & lay them on the stock & SEE how they look. Then you are out just the cost of a copy to see what suits ya. :thumbsup:

Keith Lisle

 

[kingsax26]

Buzzard I'm not really sure what you meant by your post as you didn't really say anything on topic. But I'll just assume it was encouraging a new builder along. For the others... It is a percussion but I have 2 reasons dmfor converting it. 1) I like flint. Lol. And 2) its what I want to do 😏 after reading the helpful contributions to the op. I've decided to go with a small siler...

 

[Rifleman1776]

Davis back theirs up very well,

My experience with Davis is just the opposite. :cursing:
My experience with L&R has been outstanding. :hatsoff:

 

[Birddog6]

Mine is just the opposite experience of yours.
Chambers backed his up. Davis backed theirs up, L&R ignored they had an issue, then 2 years later wanted to sell everyone new springs for their Jaeger locks they admitted were made defectively ! :idunno:

I have bought over a hundred Chambers locks. I've had 3 minor issues to date with them. First one was my fault & they fixed it for Free. The other two were Immediately repaired for free by Chambers. One a main spring broke the first time I cocked it. Cocked & snap. They never questioned it, just sent me a new spring. The other one the main spring was not fully on the tumbler shoe as I liked, no problem, they sent me a exchange lock.

I have bought 6 L&R locks. All have been a major PITA to get them to work reliably & consistently. All required buying new parts, re-tempering of springs, some required welding up & re-drilling the holes for the screws to be 90 degrees to the lockplate, etc. 50% of the time, the new parts sent to me were defective, tumblers dif. sizes, springs cracked upon arrival, springs too short, etc. and the response is send them back & we will replace them. You do that 2-3 times on a lock & you have a month waiting on correct parts & you are paying the shipping cost.

I have bought 11 Davis locks. 1st one was a disaster. The parts were fine, the assembly was horrible. Sent it back & they reworked it & it was actually worse than the original one. Sent that back & they replaced it. All others have looked good & worked well to date.

So... everyone seems to have different experiences with them. I will say, if you have not used & compared Several of each brand, you cannot really base an opinion on what is working good or bad, as you have nothing to compare it to, other than the one brand. :idunno:

Or you can be like an idiot like me & buy the ones that have failed miserably 4-5-6 times & it will finally sink in......... :shake: this is just not working well....

Keith Lisle

 

[BigBoreBLR]

Let me get this correct. The gun is a percussion and you want to make it a flintlock.

In all likelihood, you will need a new barrel. The drum is not a hole in the side of the barrel like the flash hole insert is a on a flintlock.

IF your bobcat is like my CVA hawkens, which it looks like it may be, you can't make that barrel a flint lock very easily. Even if you could, it may have ignition issues due to the design.

Unthread out that drum and you'll se it goes in about 3/4 of an inch in the barrel. The drum treaded section guides the ignition inside bolt and propagates in right in the middle of the back of the breech. Flintlock's have a 1/4" of flame to travel to reach the side of the gun. Also, the geometry of drum hole is significantly farther back than where it would be on a flintlock.

I do not suggest doing this, but you'd probably have to trim off the drum flush at the barrel and put a pipe plug of some sort to block it off. Then you'd need to drill into the side of the barrel to put the flash hole insert in.

Likely you can buy a green mountain direct replacement barrel for $200-250, plus the $150 lock.

Shop carefully and you can get a kit gun for a few mucks more.

Lyman flintlock kits are nice and still available for around $475. The barrel is already blued.

IF you do remove the drum, make a scratch mark to get the nipple angle alignment correct when you put it back together.

Keep an eye open on gunbroker, look at the blackpowder guns for sale ending in 24 hours. Usually can find a flintlock that goes for $300 or sometimes even less almost everyday. Definitely can get one by the end of the week.

I've even see kits go for $250 on there from time to time.

Improperly named auctions go for much less, that's why it's better to look at the items ending soon.

 

[galamb]

You should be able to convert your barrel to "flint" without much issue.

CVA used a patent style flint breech.

Looking at the diagram it would appear to me that if you can remove the drum you need only replace it with a liner and you will have a flint barrel.

(To me it looks like the only difference is either they put in a liner or a drum)

Now the drum can be a booger to remove and you would have to find a metric liner (maybe TOTW could help with that), but it looks like it is quite possible.

Some have noted issues with this style of breech on a flint. I use essentially the same style of breech on my rock-locks (Hawken style flint breech with the liner installed in the plug) and don't have an issue, but I do enlarge the powder chamber to one caliber size below the bore size which has worked (for me) to prevent bridging and other ignition issues.

 

[Rifleman1776]

So... everyone seems to have different experiences with them. I will say, if you have not used & compared Several of each brand, you cannot really base an opinion on what is working good or bad, as you have nothing to compare it to, other than the one brand

Not completely accurate. You have purchased and used many more locks than I have, that is for sure. But I have had a number of locks in my lifetime. Original Silers, import El Cheapos, Haddaway, etc. My one Davis, and their service, was/is a disaster. My two L&Rs have been absolutely outstanding, no service needed. Never had a Chambers so cannot personally comment.

 

[necchi]

You say Keith's advice about trying different locks for knowledge isn't true, then say you can't say anything about Chambers `cause you haven't had one?

 

[galamb]

I think any lock could be a "lemon".

I like the fit/finish on Chambers locks above all others - saves me quite a bit of polishing work.

Also, you tend to hear of a lot less issues with a Chambers lock.

But having said that, I also own/use/have used Davis and L&R and if it was going on a plains or Ohio style "cap" rifle I would use (first choice), an L&R Warranted or (second choice) a Davis Goulcher - Chambers only suitable style is the Siler Mountain of which I am not personally fond of.

I haven't used thousands of locks, it's only in the dozens (ok a few dozens) but can say I have never had a "horrible" lock.

You simply have to remember that these are, after all, "builders locks", not a 100% finished product being sold at a big box store and advertised as "totally ready for consumer use".

If you want that you buy a replacement from T/C, CVA, Traditions or Lyman.

If you buy from Chambers, L&R, Davis or a few of the lesser known others you should "expect" to have to do a little finishing/polishing/tuning.

 

[Rifleman1776]

You say Keith's advice about trying different locks for knowledge isn't true, then say you can't say anything about Chambers `cause you haven't had one?

Uh??
I'll stop there. :surrender: I think Who is going to first base about now. :slap:

 

[Bill Knapp]

There is one important thing that all that are relatively new to flintlocks, should know and that is that the Siler name has almost become a generic name like Kleenex. The Siler name and rights are now owned by Jim Chambers, and he sells Siler lock sets both individually and in bulk. A number of people assemble and resell these parts sets.. That said some of these assemblers are better carpenters than machinists. The locks you get from Chambers have a lifetime warranty, while the others don't, and it's no B.S., the others don't. The interesting thing is the price is the same within a few bucks. Another point is that 20 years or so ago. all the major builder had problems with there locks, that includes Davis, L&R, Siler. The problem was with the foundries, and has been resolved. The Davis locks now are made by M&G, owned by Larry Zorn, who has his own line, "The Mold and Gun Shop". I have probably bought 30-35 locks over the years, for builds repairs and to send off to builders like Keith, Ken Guy and Al Martin. The Siler lock is not correct for, and doesn't look right on Southern Guns, but there are many brands that will work, and so I get the style lock that fits the build. You need to do some research. That means buying a Davis, or M&G for a French style, L&R, Davis, or Chambers locks for Southern, Virginia's, Carolina's, or early 19th century Pennsylvania's, or Siler's or similar Germanic styles for pre-1800 style Pennsylvania's. All I'm saying is please be a well informed buyer, do the homework..

Bill

 

[kingsax26]

bill i think that is some great advice. I have actually come across a realy nice rifle stock that was started and never finished...the barrel channel,rod channel are complete and the butt has been inletted...however it has also been inletted for a tang that I do not have. But I want you kind folks to remember...this is my first build.I am just looking to make a functional firearm. I am not recreating anything particular...and I ahve no inclination to do so.My goal is to learn the basic mechanics to start a good foundation to expand from and I do not want it to be complcated by what school, the shape of the wrist...size of lock panels..type of lock. I am looking to build a basic rifle that can shoot deer. The deer wont care what school it is...neither do I....actually as BUZZARD so kindly put it....YES! I am looking for a rifle that goes bang. get the basics down and I can grow from there. But bill....I think the stock is a lancaster stock and I feel you make a valid argument...so maybe ill go with an early lancaster lock instead. ill post pictures and you guys can tell me what you think of the School of stock it may be

 

[frogwalking]

If you are using a $20.00 barrel, any kind of lock that will work a hundred times is fine, and the stock should be equally inexpensive. I disagree that there is no point in building such a rifle. Building this will give you valueable experience in how things go together, and the mistakes you make on this one will be inexpensive, as mistakes you will make. Once finished, you can determine if you really like shoting these, and can then decide on what to build next. The next might warrant some serious money expended.

 

[Rifleman1776]

do the homework..

That is what we are doing here.
That is good and interesting information. But, I could not find a website for M&G, he seems to deal with vendors only.
I suppose, in theory, all locks from him should be the same regardless of vendor.
Makes me wonder why all vendors do not get the same accolades.

 

[kingsax26]

ok guys! so I ahve some new motivation for doing this. I had a friend over and he already offered to buy the finished product...says hes looking for a short BP rifle...how can I argue! I did tell him that I would wait to see how the finished gun turned out before I made any sale arrangements...but Exciting none the less. Also he wants percussion so I guess ill be using the original lock anyhow.

but this is my parts set so far. Am going to order a trigger guard for it..But otherwise will reuse everything else . Best of all....the butt plate is already inletted lol