Chopped Flintlocks. How early?

[Pukka Bundook]

Trade guns have been found on the prairie east of us, lost likely in buffalo running. (flintlock)
The last one I saw had a barrel about 18 or 20 " They did not come that way, but were cut for buffalo running.
Up here, a good few hide scrapers were made from the chopped off part of the gun barrel.

No such thing as a canoe gun.
Some reservation period blanket guns, yes.

 

[tenngun]

STOP! There are reams of documentation!

Sort of.
We know what HBC was selling, or American fur et al. We know what was shipped in but….
Chocolate, big trade item, lots went to rendezvous, but I don’t recall one of the journals or memoirs telling us about enjoying a cup of chocolate by the fire
Tomatoes were thought to be poison. And outside of Spain and Latin America they weren’t eaten. We see them in some cookbooks but didn’t really become popular here until after the War between the States, yet I would bet Mountian men and Santa Fe trader ate them in New Mexico. No doubt in Louisiana they were going in to et tu Fe before any recipe was written down. And I bet some Yankee trader had them in the Caribbean or South America whilst his sister at home would never touch such a thing.
Lots of life just happens and sudden it’s a thing.
1770 caped hunting shirts are known. 1750 unknown
Where were they first made?
When?
Just all of a sudden they show up
Did someone make one in 1740? Maybe, I doubt it. I wouldn’t wear one for F and I period. But someone made the first at some time.

 

[Clark Badgett]

Sort of.
We know what HBC was selling, or American fur et al. We know what was shipped in but….
Chocolate, big trade item, lots went to rendezvous, but I don’t recall one of the journals or memoirs telling us about enjoying a cup of chocolate by the fire
Tomatoes were thought to be poison. And outside of Spain and Latin America they weren’t eaten. We see them in some cookbooks but didn’t really become popular here until after the War between the States, yet I would bet Mountian men and Santa Fe trader ate them in New Mexico. No doubt in Louisiana they were going in to et tu Fe before any recipe was written down. And I bet some Yankee trader had them in the Caribbean or South America whilst his sister at home would never touch such a thing.
Lots of life just happens and sudden it’s a thing.
1770 caped hunting shirts are known. 1750 unknown
Where were they first made?
When?
Just all of a sudden they show up
Did someone make one in 1740? Maybe, I doubt it. I wouldn’t wear one for F and I period. But someone made the first at some time.

Raw tomatoes were thought to be poisonous. Cooked were fine.

 

[Jedidiah]

STOP! There are reams of documentation!

Lets not get cranky! reams of documentation that say there were no short barreled trade guns?

Trade guns have been found on the prairie east of us, lost likely in buffalo running. (flintlock)
The last one I saw had a barrel about 18 or 20 " They did not come that way, but were cut for buffalo running.
Up here, a good few hide scrapers were made from the chopped off part of the gun barrel.

No such thing as a canoe gun.
Some reservation period blanket guns, yes.

Thanks. I understand, Blanket gun.

 

[Clark Badgett]

Lets not get cranky! reams of documentation that say there were no short barreled trade guns?

Thanks. I understand, Blanket gun.

Reservation period blanket gun. That equals LATE.

 

[Sam squanch]

I read the Indians and some mountain men on horseback used the sawed off trade guns, as it’s easier to spit a round ball down the muzzle of a very short barrel. No patches, just pour some powder , then spit a ball down. Prime and shoot. Accurate enough for buffalo hunting or warfare.

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

Lets not get cranky! reams of documentation that say there were no short barreled trade guns?

Thanks. I understand, Blanket gun.

Cranky is my normal state. Especially when you have to be told the same thing half dozen times.
Go buy yourself a bunch of books about trade guns and read it for yourself. It's what I did 40 years ago when I wanted to know stuff like this.

 

[Cruzatte]

Reams of

reams of documentation that say there were no short barreled trade guns?

Yes.

• The Northwest Gun Charles E. Hanson Jr. (1992)
• For Trade and Treaty Ryan R. Gale

These are just two of the books I can think of off the top of my head. Buy them.

For further information, contact the Museum of the Fur Trade, Chadron, NE. That museum must indeed have one of the largest collections of original NW guns. Better yet, save up your pennies and vacation time and go there.

 

[Jedidiah]

Cranky is my normal state. Especially when you have to be told the same thing half dozen times.
Go buy yourself a bunch of books about trade guns and read it for yourself. It's what I did 40 years ago when I wanted to know stuff like this.

Well, I appreciate the feedback, but i also know you do not learn everything by reading a book. Hence, the forum with lots of information, opinions and perspectives!

 

[Cruzatte]

I read the Indians and some mountain men on horseback used the sawed off trade guns, as it’s easier to spit a round ball down the muzzle of a very short barrel. No patches, just pour some powder , then spit a ball down. Prime and shoot. Accurate enough for buffalo hunting or warfare.

Yeah, probably all made up stories, too... mostly.

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

Well, I appreciate the feedback, but i also know you do not learn everything by reading a book. Hence, the forum with lots of information, opinions and perspectives!

This forum is not a good source of information . My stack of books on trade guns is probably a foot thick. Yours should be too.

 

[Cruzatte]

This forum is not a good source of information . My stack of books on trade guns is probably a foot thick. Yours should be too.

...and neither is Wikipedia a good source of information. Hie thee to the nearest public library.

 

[PathfinderNC]

Somehow I get the feeling the question stems around reenacting and Rondezvous concerns. You know, trying to see if someone’s gun can fit in?

 

[PathfinderNC]

I read the Indians and some mountain men on horseback used the sawed off trade guns, as it’s easier to spit a round ball down the muzzle of a very short barrel. No patches, just pour some powder , then spit a ball down. Prime and shoot. Accurate enough for buffalo hunting or warfare.

Read it where? Here?

 

[Sam squanch]

Read it where? Here?

Old old book .

 

[Sam squanch]

...and neither is Wikipedia a good source of information. Hie thee to the nearest public library.

Wikipedia writers have their own political agenda. I read any old book I can find. People laugh at me , but I can sometimes save the day by looking up something someone needs. Something you won’t find online.

 

[45man]

Usually they cut them because of a broken stock. I actually built a half stock flint gun because I only had a short piece of wood left. I tell everyone it was to look like a repaired gun. It has acounted for over 150 deer. A pleasure to carry.

 

[54ball]

I’m reading through this and for some reason I’m thinking about Conan Swords and......
“Pappy” with a battery on his shoulder.

 

[kipcarter]

Raw tomatoes were thought to be poisonous. Cooked were fine.

My mother who died about 10 years ago at age 87, never ate anything in her life that contained any tomato products as she believed that tomatoes were poison. She was born and raised here in North Carolina.

 

[Clark Badgett]

This forum is not a good source of information . My stack of books on trade guns is probably a foot thick. Yours should be too.

My stack is only about 3/4 a foot tall. I’m so envious. Now add muskets to the mix and my stack grows to at least 3 feet. Drives my wife crazy.