Civil War area Rifles

[Atlast357]

I'm so new to the hobby, I need a history lesson.
My area of interest is Civil War weapons.
I currently have a 1851 Navy revolver on it's way maybe two, I want a long gun to closely match the time these were used beyond the wars end. Cap and ball carried into settlement of the West. :hmm:
There are many books and articles available, however I would be interested in what you as owners and shooters have to say.
Hewy

 

[crockett]

If you are talking about a civillian arm and the west, I'd say a Hawken or similar type of heavy, half stock percussion.

 

[hanshi]

If you really want something used in the War Between the States I'd suggest the US M1841 Mississippi rifle in it's original .54 caliber. This rifle was the last US military rifle designed for round ball use. Many of them made their way west. I like mine a lot.

 

[Atlast357]

I'm thinking as with the revolvers, rifles were brought with them by the civilian settlers even with advent of the cartridge 1873 Colt
not all folks could run out and buy or otherwise obtain the newer
guns.

 

[LeMat1856]

hewy,

the CW is also my main area of interest, and i happened to find a 'muskatoon' (carbine sized, rifled, percussion) in .58 caliber called "the Artillery J.P.Murray." i just couldn't resist all that brass...

they were originally imported by EuroArms which still has a good selection listed here: EuroArms Net

check it out,

:thumbsup:
~dg~

JPMurray

 

[ihuntsnook]

I had a sporterized version of an original Bridesburg musket years ago. The fore end had been shortened, the ramrod replaced with one of wood, with thimbles soldered on the barrel. From the looks of the hammer, the gun had been shot thousands of times. I suspect many of the war surplus muskets met the same fate.

 

[Geraldo]

Winchester claimed the "rifle that won the west". but percussion rifles were built long after repeating cartridge rifles were available.

This might help: http://www.texasguntrade.com/texassportingrifles.htm

 

[bob308]

bannerman and w stokeskirk were two surplus dealers. they were still selling civil war rifles in the 90's. many were converted to cheap shotguns by then.

so even confederate arms surenderd would have been surplussed to those dealers.

 

[Trench]

Here's an example of a civilian rifle in the Indiana State History Museum that looks to be c. 1840.

 

[M. De Land]

Percussion guns were the true settlers of the West in my opinion simply because they were so abundant,inexpensive, popular and effective. Let me say from the onset that the civil war vet who ventured West with the nations expansion was far from disarmed with a Navy/Army Colt or Remington in either .36 or .44 caliber. The cartridge guns were still in their infancy and were not widely dispersed. Ammunition supply for them was very often sporadic, expensive or unobtainable, a weakness not shared with percussion guns.
Long gun availability at cheap prices was dominated by War surplus as well and many mustered out with them at wars end. 1863 Springfield and confederate Mississippi rifles were available by the thousands at a fraction of the price of cartridge guns.
Same deal at the end of WWll when surplus military rifles were sold dirt cheap and a whole industry of converting them to sporter use sprang up.MD

 

[Jim Blair]

A good look at what was arming the west post Civil War is Herbert Houze's Arming the West,Schulyer,Harley,and Graham's shipping records from 1868-1886.

Some of the surplus CW muzzle loading firearms shipped west in no particular order in the largest numbers were-

P1853 Enfield Muskets
Model 1839 Prussian Muskets
Model 1822 U.S.Muskets converted to percussion
Model 1842 U.S.Muskets

The U.S.M1842 muskets was shipped in the largest numbers.In the period covered by the book as a comparison-

Model 1842 Muskets shipped-5567
Model 1841 Percussion Rifles-961

 

[Bear Rider]

If you are talking about a civillian arm and the west, I'd say a Hawken or similar type of heavy, half stock percussion.

You have to keep in mind that the Hawken was a very high quality, expensive firearm. If the target personna is that of a settler, he is far more likely to have something cheaper. A military surplus or trade rifle would be more appropriate.

When looking at military surplus, one has to consider the weapon's date of introduction. A personna in a period immediately after the civil war is more likely to have a weapon produced either before or in the very early stages of the war than one introduced later in the war. Thus he is more likely to have a colt 1851 navy than a colt 1860 army.

 

[Jim Blair]

No idea what a Hawken or St.Louis type rifle in the period.Here are some prices on surplus arms retail from S,H,& G-

M1842 Smoothbore Musket-$1.60
M1841 Mississippi Rifle-$2.80
Pattern 1853 Enfield-$2.75
M1861/63 Rifled Musket$2.80

By way of comparison a surplus Spencer carbine was $6.65,a Winchester Model 1866 Rifle was $17.00.A Colt's Model 1873 revolver cost $14.67.Not everyone going west had a SAA and a Winchester like in the movies.Muzzleloading arms were used and sold well towards the end of the 1800s.As others have said choice would depend on your persona.

When you get right down to it,outside of the military the rifle that won the west was more likely to have been a shotgun or smoothbore musket as far as numbers go.

 

[crockett]

I must admit to a lack of knowledge on surplus military arms from the Civil War being used by civillians. When were the surplus military arms sold? I thought (but have no knowledge) that they were warehoused by the government- but that was just an assumption which is always dangerous.

 

[Atlast357]

These are some beautiful rifles, nice to know more about the percussion going beyond the cartridge guns.
Replicas using new materials must be fun to shoot. I see a
Hawkens replica available at a big retail store for $300 very very tempting. :hmm:

 

[Jim Blair]

Sales of Civil War surplus began almost immediately after the Civil War.The market was awash with surplus Spencers which caused that manufacture to fail as an example.Much of it was shipped to France for the Franco-Prussian War to such an extent Congressional hearings were held.

Selling surplus arms began before the Civil war though.Prior to the Civil War Congress passed a resolution in 1849 authorizing the Sec. of War to sell immigrants to Oregon,New Mexico,and California firearms and ammunition from stores at cost.A percussion rifle at $13.25,percussion muskets at $15,carbines for $10 to $17,and holster pistols for $7.

 

[Atlast357]

Not knowing those statics when I posed the question, I had a feeling life must been precarious at best and guns were necessity
to survival. It stands to reason the old left over CW arms would be
an easier way to go.
Love this history :applause:

 

[Zonie]

Although the Government sold tens of thousands of guns to civilians after the war they still had thousands of them towards the end of the century.

They sold them to folks like Bannerman's by the pound for tenths of a percent of the original cost.

He and others like him turned around and sold them for three to six dollars each and made a fortune.

 

[Pigman]

I must admit to a lack of knowledge on surplus military arms from the Civil War being used by civillians. When were the surplus military arms sold? I thought (but have no knowledge) that they were warehoused by the government- but that was just an assumption which is always dangerous.

At the end of the Civil War the soldiers were given the opportunity to purchase their weapons and equipment at reduced cost when they mustered out. It has been said that in 1865 the US was the most heavily armed country in the world because of this.

If you want to experience shooting like a Civil War soldier buy an 1861 Springfield. They were a great weapon at the time and still are. You just have to learn to fire a rifled musket. They are different than a modern rifle or a Hawken gun. Learn the drill and they work well.

Foster From Flint

 

[CoyoteJoe]

No question that the military surplus weapons were very common in the west. Problem for you is that you can no longer buy a civil war musket for two bucks, not even after adjustment for inflation. :haha:
I think you would be much better served with a civilian sporting rifle. The Lyman Great Plains Rifle is a very nice replica, very accurate and easy to shoot. Ammunition for a .50 caliber costs about half as much as for a .58 rifled musket and the rifle itself costs close to half as much as a Springfield rifled musket. They also can be found in good used condition for even less money but you do sort of have to know what to look for in a used gun, often there may be a good reason why it is for sale.