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Civilian Matchlocks?

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Aiden Fontana

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Does anybody have any information about about civilian hunting matchlocks? I can't find anything on this topic but they surely had to exist right? I remember listening to "Sign of the Beaver" on tape during a road trip and the main character goes off about how his dad's flintlock is better than his old matchlock. While not a historically accurate book, it made me think about the lack of info regarding civi matchlock weapons. Anybody got anything to share? Thanks.
 
Here's another...

You have to understand that princes were always hesitant to spend money on new stuff, better though it may be. Typically they used what they had until compelled for assorted reasons to change which I won;t go through here. Civilians, on the other hand, always had the state-of-the-art, though how you define civilian is a whole another subject.
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/...fid/26/tid/285060/pid/1345816/post/last/#LAST
 
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There was a huge collection of them in Dresden and a couple of drawings. When asked if the whole collection was catalogued the answer came back, there is no point, they are all the same. Then Bomber Harris used the timber framed city for an early experiment with napalm and the collection was no more.

It is the gun with a fat, hollow butt for keeping everything in, a fancy brass finger grip and a snapping lock. Wood for everyday, ivory for posh but always the same :thumbsup:
 
LOL For the Bicentennial my town asked for its regimental colors back from the family in Hesse-Cassel whose murderous mercenary forefather (not expecting any sympathy there Brave Sir Robin) captured, took to Germany, and displayed it on their castle wall from 1776 to at least 1939.

Their response was something like "we just want to remind you that there was a big war here in the not too distant past and much was lost in the great confligration."
 
Fowl-Hunting-P510-PicC-150.jpg

1560-1575 http://www.elfinspell.com/England/PallMallMag/Vol13-1897/Baillie-Grohman-FowlingInBygoneDays.html
I recall seeing those tube sites on supposedly civilian matchlocks in German museums. The idea was let you keep aiming when the pan ignited.

Does anyone have artwork or accounts of early colonial hunting matchlocks?
 
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Again, not a hunting matchlock but a Dutch target matchlock described ,(I think incorrectly)~ as a Schuetzen matchlock although it has some similar features. Very modernistic looking for the second half of the 17th century. Omit the palm rest and it looks very much like something you might see today. If this is ok to post.....
http://www.hermann-historica.de/auktion/images67_max/80670_b.jpg
 
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matchlock-mechanism-edited.jpg


I can see what the artist is thinking but I still suspect that the tube was intended as a site to see through the pan flash and shield.
 
Henry VIII has (had) a fine matchlock with such a sight. I don't think they were all that rare on sprting guns. Military is something else -- they wouldn't matter to the tactical and strategic doctrine.
 
Thanks everybody for the replies. That Dutch gun is really interesting, never seen anything like it. But don't you think that by the time guns reached that point in aesthetics, there would have been far better ignition systems available like wheelock or snaphaunce? Why did this one keep the slowmach?

Aiden
 
AMT Fontana said:
far better ignition systems available like wheelock or snaphaunce? Why did this one keep the slowmatch?

Perhaps you are thinking too modern.

Until percussion and hot metal stamping made it easy to make a gun lock and people started supplying barrels so you didn't have to make your own, the number of people who could produce a working flintlock was tiny. It was all Guilds and secrets.

If you wanted in to the gun lock business without doing a major apprenticeship you had to hope you had relations making parts for a military contract. Someone to get your knees under the table.

Perhaps you get a distorted view of flintlock making from America because for some reason they carried on making them long after everyone else had given up. It certainly wasn't an abundance of flint. It wasn't because the military needed persuading :idunno:

The wheel lock was used by Germans and cavalry, but the cavalry dropped it the moment the English Lock gave them a credible alternative. For some obscure reason the Germans couldn't stop making them :idunno:
 
My theory is that the tube was to protect the match cord from igniting during ignition. If the extra match cord was wrapped around the wrist to a front cock match lock, the cord would need protection from being rubbed/torn while hanging between the wrist and the cock, and would need to be protected from being ignited when the gun goes off. I think the tube kept the slack cord from flopping around the breech area and kept it from being ignited by mistake.

The diagram does seem to show the cord extending through the tube.
 
Alden said:
Henry VIII has (had) a fine matchlock with such a sight. I don't think they were all that rare on sprting guns. Military is something else -- they wouldn't matter to the tactical and strategic doctrine.

I'm going to have to try to find an image of this intriguing piece. Thanks for the tip, Alden.
 
In the Gun and it's Development, greener mentions a revolving matchlock in the tower collection as belonging to Henry 8th. a diagram appears on page 82 of the gun and it's development. He also mentions 21 breech loading matchlock pistol shields (using a cartridge) manufactured during Henry the 8th's reign, diagram on page 92.
 
BillinOregon said:
I'm going to have to try to find an image of this intriguing piece.

There is the so called "Henry VIII's gun in the tower of London but the lock is very possibly from much later having a drawing pan lid :thumbsup:
 
ChrisPer said:
Remember artists were not necessarily shooters, and not necessarily drawing within memory of the use of those guns.

You can see that the earliest depiction of a gun was by description. The artist was told that a gun looked like "a jar mounted on a table", because that is exactly what he drew :rotf:
 
There are plenty of period European prints of non-military matchlocks in hunting and target shooting scenes. The earliest I know of dates from 1504 titled "Target Shoot Zurich", Sept, 1504. Most of the match locks depicted are of the curved butt type, fired off the center of the chest, called petronels. The only known period image of a new world colonial civilian with his matchlock is by the artist, Lemoyne. He was an artist serving with the French colonist in Florida circa 1564. Lemoyne made several other images of military members of the ill-fated colony with their matchlocks. The image of the civilian shows him with a petronel, match cord alight. Also, clearly visible are his powder flask and a separate priming flask. I must also take note, over the past centurys many authors and illustrators have mistakenly shown the matchlocks rear sight as a match guide/holder. This is, in fact, the rear sight - they were called orthoptic sights in the time of their use. The orthoptic sight combined with a globe front sight, at that time called a guide, gives an excellent sight picture. Many surviving sporting matchlocks have this sight combination. I should note most all matchlocks used by those colonizing the East/North coast of the Americas were using surplus military matchlocks. A good example of this can be read in the arms requisition by James Town after the 1622, March 22nd massacre at Martin's Hundred. Asking for replacement arms and more to keep on hand, their order was filled from surplus, from the Tower of London. At that time only military armor and weapons were kept there. Gentlemen Adventures, leaders of a colonial enterprise may have brought their personnel sporting pieces with them. These would have been smaller cal., .60-.75 (approximately) and they would have been proportionately smaller and lighter too and artfully embellished. G.S.
 
Somewhere (I wish I could find it again) I found a museum photo of an early 18th century (yes 18th) matchlock target rifle, Germanic in origin. The stock was of an appropriate shape for that era and the lock plate was slightly banana shaped. It had a short tubular rear sight with a peep hole.

I looked it up for a friend who wanted to build a matchlock rifle - and he did. It's a reasonably faithful copy and it shoots well. He regularly surprises the ultra-modern flintlock and space-age caplock shooters with it.

The secret that hemp-burners know is that with a matchlock there is no flinch. The glowing coal disappears behind the flash guard annnd...Boom! I guess a few European target shooters still knew that in the early 1700s.
 
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